Group 62 Bulletin Board
7 threads - 28 total comments
This page is for discussions about our theme (Monochrome) that are outside the scope of our monthly images. Unlike comments on our images, the discussions here will not be "refreshed" every month.
Thread Title: Print
I recently took a fine art printing class from Stephen Johnson (https://stephen-johnson-gtt1.squarespace.com). We do so many things digitally that I wanted to get back to producing a tangible product. I made many prints during that workshop. But Stephen also took time to talk about making books.
Our group creates wonderful images. I want to encourage everyone to make some prints. MagCloud is a wonderful, inexpensive way to make high-quality picture books. I have been using the 11 by 17 format, wire bound. The wire binding allow the book to open flat to any page. Just to give you an idea, a 42-page book I did recently costs $18 to produce. You can see an example of my book here, but pursue other projects. (https://www.magcloud.com/browse/issue/2597036) Posted: 09/08/2023 09:27:14
Our group creates wonderful images. I want to encourage everyone to make some prints. MagCloud is a wonderful, inexpensive way to make high-quality picture books. I have been using the 11 by 17 format, wire bound. The wire binding allow the book to open flat to any page. Just to give you an idea, a 42-page book I did recently costs $18 to produce. You can see an example of my book here, but pursue other projects. (https://www.magcloud.com/browse/issue/2597036) Posted: 09/08/2023 09:27:14
Excellent idea, Bunny! I printed my first photo zine through Mixam.com/zines a few years ago. My book is 9x6", and for a first book, I loved the size. I find a photo looks best when it is printed. Posted: 09/08/2023 09:38:53
Great idea. Tried the site but didn't pull up your book. Plan to create a book on magcloud and will let you know what i think. Mark Posted: 09/12/2023 12:06:05
Mark, the link to Mixam.com/zine is just to the print company that prints custom sized photo zines. My zine is not online. It was a compilation of 34 images, on 24-pages in both color and B&W. It's about 9.5" x 6." I got the idea of photo zines from watching British photographers show them on YouTube.
LuAnn Posted: 09/12/2023 13:09:28
LuAnn Posted: 09/12/2023 13:09:28
Thread Title: Black & White Photography: “Is my picture better in color, or black and white”?
Committing to the Black & White Photograph: “Is my picture better in color, or black and white”?
“I especially urge students of photography to disengage from serious contemplation on how the color original connects to them as a prerequisite for critical analysis of the Black and White converted one”. L. A. Lewin
Nowadays, and for all practical purposes, every digital image is first rendered as a color image ... I suggest this forced, initial color rendering, is unique in its influential status: we are dictated to interpret the color image first ... even edit the color image in post-production before converting it to a black and white (BW) alternative. This process is much different from shooting a roll of BW film where the photographer is never introduced to color. In this scenario the photographer’s interpretation is (unbiased) or not heavily influenced by viewing a color version first; that is, choosing and studying a color image before converting to BW is not part of the equation when shooting BW film. So, the question ... “Is my picture better in color, or black and white”? ... is not part of the normal workflow when shooting, developing, and eventually presenting a BW tangible photograph.
Nonetheless, here we are, examining the color (original) first and then making a decision if the image is worthy for rendering in black and white. I argue, this (digital) workflow is interfering with how we learn to appreciate BW compositions for what they reveal on their own merits. It is for this reason I especially urge students of photography to disengage from serious contemplation on how the color original connects to them as a prerequisite for critical analysis of the black and white converted one. Instead, the initial evaluation of your work should be centered only on your BW rendering: this will lessen the tendency to judge our Black & White photography based on preconceptions learned from studying color images. Much like the artist painter who chooses to use only one or two colors in all their work, they never make and present a full-colored version for comparison, similarly, the serious photographer that practices composing work in black & white is fully committed to his or her ideals, visions and philosophy that ultimately directed them to create in this manner ... and comparisons to natural color alternatives have no place in the conversation.
The serious or advanced artist-photographer who centers her art in Black and White imagery does so, not by choosing from an assortment of color originals, but instead, the artist is impervious to the color version: her thoughts are not...’will this look better...’ but instead moves forward and (digitally converts) the color original to BW. It is not uncommon, too, to convert the color original to B&W and not like it at all. This is no different from the reaction the artist-photographer exhibits viewing his latest roll of B&W film and decides a particular subject is not as engaging as she would have hoped.
In the future, do not ask... “Is my picture better in color, or black and white” ... if you are an artist-photographer who strives to showcase your creativity through a mostly White to Black tonal gamut, then instead, direct the spectator to your B&W fine art photography for what (it) is. In this sense, we are presenting the work “as is”.
I look forward to hearing like experiences and comments regardless if in support or ones that challenge the proposed work process. In the end, it is all about sharing ideas in though-provoking discourse. Thank you.
Lance A. Lewin Fine Art Photographer/Lecturer
PSA Global Black & White Photography Mentor
PSA South Atlantic Area Membership Director Posted: 09/01/2023 06:17:19
“I especially urge students of photography to disengage from serious contemplation on how the color original connects to them as a prerequisite for critical analysis of the Black and White converted one”. L. A. Lewin
Nowadays, and for all practical purposes, every digital image is first rendered as a color image ... I suggest this forced, initial color rendering, is unique in its influential status: we are dictated to interpret the color image first ... even edit the color image in post-production before converting it to a black and white (BW) alternative. This process is much different from shooting a roll of BW film where the photographer is never introduced to color. In this scenario the photographer’s interpretation is (unbiased) or not heavily influenced by viewing a color version first; that is, choosing and studying a color image before converting to BW is not part of the equation when shooting BW film. So, the question ... “Is my picture better in color, or black and white”? ... is not part of the normal workflow when shooting, developing, and eventually presenting a BW tangible photograph.
Nonetheless, here we are, examining the color (original) first and then making a decision if the image is worthy for rendering in black and white. I argue, this (digital) workflow is interfering with how we learn to appreciate BW compositions for what they reveal on their own merits. It is for this reason I especially urge students of photography to disengage from serious contemplation on how the color original connects to them as a prerequisite for critical analysis of the black and white converted one. Instead, the initial evaluation of your work should be centered only on your BW rendering: this will lessen the tendency to judge our Black & White photography based on preconceptions learned from studying color images. Much like the artist painter who chooses to use only one or two colors in all their work, they never make and present a full-colored version for comparison, similarly, the serious photographer that practices composing work in black & white is fully committed to his or her ideals, visions and philosophy that ultimately directed them to create in this manner ... and comparisons to natural color alternatives have no place in the conversation.
The serious or advanced artist-photographer who centers her art in Black and White imagery does so, not by choosing from an assortment of color originals, but instead, the artist is impervious to the color version: her thoughts are not...’will this look better...’ but instead moves forward and (digitally converts) the color original to BW. It is not uncommon, too, to convert the color original to B&W and not like it at all. This is no different from the reaction the artist-photographer exhibits viewing his latest roll of B&W film and decides a particular subject is not as engaging as she would have hoped.
In the future, do not ask... “Is my picture better in color, or black and white” ... if you are an artist-photographer who strives to showcase your creativity through a mostly White to Black tonal gamut, then instead, direct the spectator to your B&W fine art photography for what (it) is. In this sense, we are presenting the work “as is”.
I look forward to hearing like experiences and comments regardless if in support or ones that challenge the proposed work process. In the end, it is all about sharing ideas in though-provoking discourse. Thank you.
Lance A. Lewin Fine Art Photographer/Lecturer
PSA Global Black & White Photography Mentor
PSA South Atlantic Area Membership Director Posted: 09/01/2023 06:17:19
Update: so I am very clear .... I do mean I suggest we "disconnect emotionally" from the color version, but editing the color version is persuaded! Thank you. Posted: 09/12/2023 11:32:12
Thread Title: Jack Curran Photography
I too took one of Jacks classes at the International Photography Hall of Fame in St. Louis and got hooked on monochrome for most of my work. Oh and I only use Lightroom with some forays into Helicon focus and Topaz AI, but my BW conversions are always done in LR. Jacks class also pushed me into a more creative process where I use the original image as a canvas and do my best to pull the viewer into the image and focus them where I want. Yes, this may not work in travel, nature or photojournalism, but it is fine are art and that's where I choose to me at this time. Posted: 03/28/2023 21:53:55
Indeed, as we move beyond "classic tradition" and the rules set for some classes of photography, we enter photography sub-genres (e.g., Composite, Hybrid, Conceptual for a few examples) and we can even add "alternative printing" to the class of work we often consider as Fine Art Photography.
But I am happy Nadia posted this reminder for those who engage in these alternative means of photographic work, that they must tread carefully when presented them within the class of more traditional forms where "rules" apply because of clients wishes in commercial assignments or maintaining the inherent epistemic values of photography expected in some photography genres. Thank you for your constructive comments, Mark. Posted: 04/03/2023 06:28:48
But I am happy Nadia posted this reminder for those who engage in these alternative means of photographic work, that they must tread carefully when presented them within the class of more traditional forms where "rules" apply because of clients wishes in commercial assignments or maintaining the inherent epistemic values of photography expected in some photography genres. Thank you for your constructive comments, Mark. Posted: 04/03/2023 06:28:48
AS a follow up, Jack did several workshops for the International Photography Hall of Fame that are available to members for free and non members at a small fee. If interested check it out at www.iphf.org. Posted: 09/12/2023 12:07:43
Thread Title: Photographic Society of America PTD Competition Corner
Hello, everyone! After reading Nadia’s entry in the PSA supplemental Travel Journal, I thought it was important enough to re-post in the Digital Dialogue group pages. Here, we are reminded that “changing reality” is not allowed in PSA Travel Photography competition. In addition, I also want to stress the need to appropriately categorize one’s work if using “composite” techniques (including sky replacement) by tagging the work as a Hybrid Image, primarily when competing outside the Travel Photography category.
Below is a shortened version of Nadia Filiaggi’s original post in this months Travel Photography Journal.
Photography Travel is a documentary medium, and our images must reflect what was seen when we pressed the shutter. Removing, adding to, moving, or changing any part of an image except for cropping and straightening is not allowed. This goes for adding a different sky even if you are the author of the sky that is being replaced. (Please see the images below for reference).
(Note that using an element on an image that is not your own work cannot be entered into any section of a PSA recognized Exhibitions and is in violation of the PSA Ethics Policy).
Here are some examples showing the sky replacements selected from the Photoshop sky replacement facility: Here, it is evident how each Sky Replacement selection changes the mood and overall aesthetic of the original registered event below. Nonetheless, both examples are not authentic and thus ineligible to be used in PSA image competition.
The ‘2023 Photo Travel Guide for Judges and Chairs’ is available for download on the Photo Travel’s webpage: https://psa-photo.org/page/photo-travel
The Photo Travel Division has also set up a Gallery of staged/set-up images which our members can peruse: https://psa-photo.org/page/mo-ptd-staged-images
We have also produced new educational material that relates to the 2023 Guide: https://psa-photo.org/page/mo-ptd-resources
If you are uncertain if your image adheres to the Photo Travel Definition, please make use of the free Photo Travel Evaluation Service which members can access after login: https://psa-photo.org/page/mo-individual-image-evaluation
We look forward to hearing from you and directing your questions to the appropriate PSA administrator.
Originally posted by:
Nadia Filiaggi MPSA EFIAP
Email: ptd-esd@psa-photo.org
Best regards,
Lance A. Lewin (DD83 and DD87 Admin)
PSA B&W Photography Mentor
PSA South Atlantic Area Membership Director
Email: lance.visualizingart@gmail.com
Posted: 03/28/2023 20:49:42
Below is a shortened version of Nadia Filiaggi’s original post in this months Travel Photography Journal.
Photography Travel is a documentary medium, and our images must reflect what was seen when we pressed the shutter. Removing, adding to, moving, or changing any part of an image except for cropping and straightening is not allowed. This goes for adding a different sky even if you are the author of the sky that is being replaced. (Please see the images below for reference).
(Note that using an element on an image that is not your own work cannot be entered into any section of a PSA recognized Exhibitions and is in violation of the PSA Ethics Policy).
Here are some examples showing the sky replacements selected from the Photoshop sky replacement facility: Here, it is evident how each Sky Replacement selection changes the mood and overall aesthetic of the original registered event below. Nonetheless, both examples are not authentic and thus ineligible to be used in PSA image competition.
The ‘2023 Photo Travel Guide for Judges and Chairs’ is available for download on the Photo Travel’s webpage: https://psa-photo.org/page/photo-travel
The Photo Travel Division has also set up a Gallery of staged/set-up images which our members can peruse: https://psa-photo.org/page/mo-ptd-staged-images
We have also produced new educational material that relates to the 2023 Guide: https://psa-photo.org/page/mo-ptd-resources
If you are uncertain if your image adheres to the Photo Travel Definition, please make use of the free Photo Travel Evaluation Service which members can access after login: https://psa-photo.org/page/mo-individual-image-evaluation
We look forward to hearing from you and directing your questions to the appropriate PSA administrator.
Originally posted by:
Nadia Filiaggi MPSA EFIAP
Email: ptd-esd@psa-photo.org
Best regards,
Lance A. Lewin (DD83 and DD87 Admin)
PSA B&W Photography Mentor
PSA South Atlantic Area Membership Director
Email: lance.visualizingart@gmail.com
Posted: 03/28/2023 20:49:42
Posted: 03/28/2023 20:49:55
ORIGINAL IMAGE REGISTERED BY THE CAMERA: acceptable Posted: 03/28/2023 20:50:30
Thread Title: Fine Art Photography Article: Compositional Structure
PSA Fine Art Photography Article: Compositional Structure
Hello, everyone! Hope you take the time to read my article in
The March issue of the PSA Journal, which can be found on the
PSA website if you do not currently receive the hard-copy of the
Journal. I very much look forward to your comments.
You can also Follow the Link below. Thank you.
https://psa-photo.org/resource/resmgr/pdf/journal_/2023/2023-03-psa-journal.pdf
Lance A. Lewin
PSA B&W Photography Mentor
PSA South Atlantic Area Membership Director
Contact: lance.visualizingart@gmail.com
Posted: 03/19/2023 16:37:23
Hello, everyone! Hope you take the time to read my article in
The March issue of the PSA Journal, which can be found on the
PSA website if you do not currently receive the hard-copy of the
Journal. I very much look forward to your comments.
You can also Follow the Link below. Thank you.
https://psa-photo.org/resource/resmgr/pdf/journal_/2023/2023-03-psa-journal.pdf
Lance A. Lewin
PSA B&W Photography Mentor
PSA South Atlantic Area Membership Director
Contact: lance.visualizingart@gmail.com
Posted: 03/19/2023 16:37:23
Thread Title: Advice for the Monochrome Newbie?
Do any of you have suggestions for books, tools, or webinars that might help a monochrome newbie, such as myself, get better? I just started using Artisan Pro and am impressed with it. However, I think it will be a long time before I know how to tap its tru potential. Posted: 02/06/2021 20:18:52
Thread Title: B&W Webinar
This information is from the Group 3 BB, of which LuAnn is a member:
Kenmore Camera is offering a FREE webinar: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/from-oz-to-kansas-capturing-creating-the-ultimate-digital-black-white-tickets-136959671063
It looks interesting. Both she and I have signed up Posted: 02/06/2021 20:16:57
Kenmore Camera is offering a FREE webinar: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/from-oz-to-kansas-capturing-creating-the-ultimate-digital-black-white-tickets-136959671063
It looks interesting. Both she and I have signed up Posted: 02/06/2021 20:16:57
Bunny,& LuAnn I will not participating in this Artisan Pro thing. Lightroom Monochrome or Silver Efex is all I need. Posted: 02/06/2021 20:56:48
I think I should try Silver Efex to compare with Artisan. Is Silver Efex a Photoahop plugin? Are there good tutorials? Posted: 02/06/2021 21:42:46
Bunny, the free, Version2, has not been working with the current version of LrC, I haven't tried it with Ps. I'm positive that the SilverEfex trial version will work. They probably got upset with everyone using V2 after they spent money to develop V3.
I use the monochrome/B&W in LrC panel and also paid for a zoom lesson to use LrC using the sliders. Both of those methods work for me, especially with ability to use Gradients and Dodge & Burn. I'm taking Oliver and Emil's,DD62, word that Artisan has a steep learning curve. Posted: 02/06/2021 22:06:06
I use the monochrome/B&W in LrC panel and also paid for a zoom lesson to use LrC using the sliders. Both of those methods work for me, especially with ability to use Gradients and Dodge & Burn. I'm taking Oliver and Emil's,DD62, word that Artisan has a steep learning curve. Posted: 02/06/2021 22:06:06
Bunny, Silver Efexs Pro is one of the Photoshop plugins that's in the Nik Collection 3. The collection contains 8 separate plugins that are amazingly powerful. Silver Efex Pro is probably the best known of these plugins. There are numerous youtube videos about each plugin. Unlike the Artisan videos, the Nik ones are very understandable.
The Nik Collection is relatively expensive ($149), but there is a 30-day free trial available. You can't purchase the Nik plugins separately as far as I know.
I suggest that you give the trial a try. And, if you'd like, once you've installed it, I'd be glad to help you with it via a zoom session. Just let me know.
Posted: 02/07/2021 07:48:04
The Nik Collection is relatively expensive ($149), but there is a 30-day free trial available. You can't purchase the Nik plugins separately as far as I know.
I suggest that you give the trial a try. And, if you'd like, once you've installed it, I'd be glad to help you with it via a zoom session. Just let me know.
Posted: 02/07/2021 07:48:04
All
There is another option to Silver Efex and Artisan Pro. I went to a session conducted by St Louis landscape photographer Jack Curran about two years ago. Jack is a well known black and white landscape photographer whose name I did not know at the time. Jack demonstrated how he uses LR to render his photos in BW. It is his only tool. I was interested in learning more about BW landscape so hence my interest. His real time demonstration was an epiphany for me in terms what you can do in LR alone. Jack made several YouTube videos on how he renders in BW and I would recommend his 60 minute session where he shows how he uses each of the tools in the LR develop module in his BW work. I became an ardent follower of his work, Facebook posts, and attended several workshops and Zoom lectures last year. I always use his techniques to finish my photos even if I use a plugin to convert to BW. Sadly Jack died while riding his bike in a local park last year. We lost a great photographer and a good man. Posted: 02/07/2021 08:35:09
There is another option to Silver Efex and Artisan Pro. I went to a session conducted by St Louis landscape photographer Jack Curran about two years ago. Jack is a well known black and white landscape photographer whose name I did not know at the time. Jack demonstrated how he uses LR to render his photos in BW. It is his only tool. I was interested in learning more about BW landscape so hence my interest. His real time demonstration was an epiphany for me in terms what you can do in LR alone. Jack made several YouTube videos on how he renders in BW and I would recommend his 60 minute session where he shows how he uses each of the tools in the LR develop module in his BW work. I became an ardent follower of his work, Facebook posts, and attended several workshops and Zoom lectures last year. I always use his techniques to finish my photos even if I use a plugin to convert to BW. Sadly Jack died while riding his bike in a local park last year. We lost a great photographer and a good man. Posted: 02/07/2021 08:35:09
Emil, I Googled Jack Curran and watched some of his videos. VERY IMPRESSIVE! Instead of using LR, I used Photoshop and Camera Raw which is nearly identical to LR. I was amazed at the effects that can be created with those simple tools. I've attached my first effort and will follow this with a copy of the original image.
Thank you for the lead!
Posted: 02/07/2021 10:56:38
Thank you for the lead!
Posted: 02/07/2021 10:56:38
Nice! Posted: 02/07/2021 12:20:33
Pete
I learned a lot about about BW processing from Jack's videos and webinars. He had the talent to see the printed image when he took the photo - not an acquired skill in my view. He was a good instructor and shared how he did things.
When you watch the ones where he is working on one of his images, his use of the tools seems unintuitive at times that was his eye taking over the workflow. He liked to let his work sit and come back to it. I do that now too. He also would make several virtual copies with different treatments to help him decide what the master copy would look like.
Your use of PS and Camera Raw is a great choice as well. I typically use both. Posted: 02/07/2021 12:36:21
I learned a lot about about BW processing from Jack's videos and webinars. He had the talent to see the printed image when he took the photo - not an acquired skill in my view. He was a good instructor and shared how he did things.
When you watch the ones where he is working on one of his images, his use of the tools seems unintuitive at times that was his eye taking over the workflow. He liked to let his work sit and come back to it. I do that now too. He also would make several virtual copies with different treatments to help him decide what the master copy would look like.
Your use of PS and Camera Raw is a great choice as well. I typically use both. Posted: 02/07/2021 12:36:21
Original....
Posted: 02/07/2021 10:57:19
Posted: 02/07/2021 10:57:19
Bob,
<br />I read the description again, and I don't see where it is an Artisan Pro seminar. It appears to cover many techniques. But because you are already happy with your workflow, probably not worthwhile. I'll let you know what I think after I've taken it.
<br /> Posted: 02/07/2021 12:19:53
<br />I read the description again, and I don't see where it is an Artisan Pro seminar. It appears to cover many techniques. But because you are already happy with your workflow, probably not worthwhile. I'll let you know what I think after I've taken it.
<br /> Posted: 02/07/2021 12:19:53
Thanks to Bunny for starting this discussion, and thanks for all of the info. I have just checked out Jack Curran's video on botanicals, and plan to review the longer, hour video on lightroom tools. Looking forward to trying out these ideas and techniques. Posted: 02/07/2021 12:25:05
Bunny, that was not me on the seminar link. I think LuAnn or Emil, or Pete Posted: 02/07/2021 14:05:51
All
I started using Artisan Pro so I could process architectural photos. It is work to use and the YouTube videos that you turn to for help typically feature the creator who is a genius but a very poor instructor. I have mastered the tool well enough to produce decent images but I took a few intermediate steps.
I found YouTube videos done by JC Images. He does start to finish lessons. You see him on the street shooting and then back at his computer processing - BW renderings . He uses Photoshop. You learn by exploring new techniques so I recommend viewing a video. You can apply aspects of his workflow to landscapes so give him a look. Posted: 02/07/2021 13:05:03
I started using Artisan Pro so I could process architectural photos. It is work to use and the YouTube videos that you turn to for help typically feature the creator who is a genius but a very poor instructor. I have mastered the tool well enough to produce decent images but I took a few intermediate steps.
I found YouTube videos done by JC Images. He does start to finish lessons. You see him on the street shooting and then back at his computer processing - BW renderings . He uses Photoshop. You learn by exploring new techniques so I recommend viewing a video. You can apply aspects of his workflow to landscapes so give him a look. Posted: 02/07/2021 13:05:03