Group 79 Bulletin Board
6 threads - 19 total comments
This page is dedicated to discussions about our theme (Fine Arts) that are outside the scope of our monthly images.
Thread Title: AI: photography or graphic design
PSA has issued an invitation to join dialogs devoted to Adobe AI (see below). I believe that the description of Adobe AI in the invitation is narrow. AI is much more that making creative composites. We have long used our post processing software to tweak our images. It sounds like the new dialogs will focus on the creative composting aspect of AI where the software designs elements not present in the original image. Is this work photography or graphic design? I realize that compositing with Photoshop layers has also been controversial - BUT in this case all elements of the final composite originate in the photographer's photos.
Barbara's invitation:
Adobe’s Artificial Intelligence (AI) is now being used by many photographers and I believe we need to recognise it and introduce it as part of Digital Dialogue developing Study Groups that members having that common interest can share and practice this type of image creation. It would differ in that one would not be asking fellow members for additions/improvements in order to submit to a competition or exhibition but rather to show the technique used to accomplish the finished image. This means that one must keep a record of their steps and provide the original and perhaps a couple more of progress along the way. The same routine would be used as at present, 7 members in a group with images due no later than the 9th
One member of DD describes the use of AI:
There are two ways that AI is currently used in photography. The way that many people think of is image creation from a text description. There are many tools to do this: midjourney, DALL-E, and several others. Typically the user describes an image and the software creates it. Of course, the user can then ask for multiple variations, etc. It's quite sophisticated.
The second way that AI is being used is shown in an upcoming version of Photoshop. (This version is currently in beta testing, but is available to anyone with a Photoshop subscription.) A typical use of this new capability is to start with the user's own image, select an area of the image, and then "tell" Photoshop what to place in that location by typing a description. So, this AI process is a type of image manipulation; whereas the first process is image creation.
Please pass this to your members and If any are interested in joining an AI group please contact me (bembrit@bellsouth.net and also if willing to administer a group.
Kind regards, Barbara
Barbara E Miller
HonPSA MPSA EFIAP
Director Digital Dialogue
http://psadigital.org/groups/
Expand your photographic horizons each month by looking at the "Member Showcase" at http://psadigital.org/
Posted: 06/25/2023 18:20:43
Barbara's invitation:
Adobe’s Artificial Intelligence (AI) is now being used by many photographers and I believe we need to recognise it and introduce it as part of Digital Dialogue developing Study Groups that members having that common interest can share and practice this type of image creation. It would differ in that one would not be asking fellow members for additions/improvements in order to submit to a competition or exhibition but rather to show the technique used to accomplish the finished image. This means that one must keep a record of their steps and provide the original and perhaps a couple more of progress along the way. The same routine would be used as at present, 7 members in a group with images due no later than the 9th
One member of DD describes the use of AI:
There are two ways that AI is currently used in photography. The way that many people think of is image creation from a text description. There are many tools to do this: midjourney, DALL-E, and several others. Typically the user describes an image and the software creates it. Of course, the user can then ask for multiple variations, etc. It's quite sophisticated.
The second way that AI is being used is shown in an upcoming version of Photoshop. (This version is currently in beta testing, but is available to anyone with a Photoshop subscription.) A typical use of this new capability is to start with the user's own image, select an area of the image, and then "tell" Photoshop what to place in that location by typing a description. So, this AI process is a type of image manipulation; whereas the first process is image creation.
Please pass this to your members and If any are interested in joining an AI group please contact me (bembrit@bellsouth.net and also if willing to administer a group.
Kind regards, Barbara
Barbara E Miller
HonPSA MPSA EFIAP
Director Digital Dialogue
http://psadigital.org/groups/
Expand your photographic horizons each month by looking at the "Member Showcase" at http://psadigital.org/
Posted: 06/25/2023 18:20:43
I think that the exact processing steps are embedded in the EXIF file. Am I wrong?
Posted: 06/25/2023 21:12:13
Posted: 06/25/2023 21:12:13
If I use AI to process an image, and it adds elements that were not created by me, unless there was a change in the rules that completed image would not be eligible for competitions, or PSA sponsored exhibitions. Posted: 06/25/2023 21:21:09
That is my understanding of the current rules. Posted: 06/25/2023 21:35:53
Thread Title: Legal Tripod where tripods are not allowed
A lot of us have been to places where tripods and/or monopods are not allowed, or we don't have the tripod with us.
To solve the problem: I use a fishing line. One end has a fixed loop that goes around the tip of my shoe, and the other end is firmly tied to anything that can be screwed into the tripod hole in my camera. When I am ready to shoot, I increase the tension to help keep the camera steady. If I need the line shorter, I simply wrap the excess around my camera. Posted: 03/25/2023 16:31:00
To solve the problem: I use a fishing line. One end has a fixed loop that goes around the tip of my shoe, and the other end is firmly tied to anything that can be screwed into the tripod hole in my camera. When I am ready to shoot, I increase the tension to help keep the camera steady. If I need the line shorter, I simply wrap the excess around my camera. Posted: 03/25/2023 16:31:00
Thread Title: The Lighter side of Fine Art
One of my friends, (real, not FB,) recently shared this rather lighthearted comment on Fine Art, for the group to enjoy. Posted: 12/18/2022 18:02:50
Thread Title: Arresting beauty
I am only recently becoming an "active" photographer and I cannot speak with authority on the evolution of photographic genre. My layman's understanding of the term "Fine Art" is "art concerned primarily with the creation of beautiful objects" or simply "aesthetic" - and I embrace that definition because it so well describes my personal goal for my photography.
For me, Fine Art in photography is about the outcome not the process. The image may be a faithful reproduction of reality, or it may be highly manipulated; it could be a simple rose or it could be an allegory of monumental moment; but for me it is Fine Art if it is perceived at least by some to be of arresting beauty.
We need a term for that - I think the term is Fine Art - if this is not correct, then I would ask what term I should use instead. Posted: 05/27/2022 22:55:46
For me, Fine Art in photography is about the outcome not the process. The image may be a faithful reproduction of reality, or it may be highly manipulated; it could be a simple rose or it could be an allegory of monumental moment; but for me it is Fine Art if it is perceived at least by some to be of arresting beauty.
We need a term for that - I think the term is Fine Art - if this is not correct, then I would ask what term I should use instead. Posted: 05/27/2022 22:55:46
Thread Title: 21st Century Fine Art Photography
Inspired from DD-77 Bulletin Board post by Witta Prieste June, 2020...” Who is the Viewer and Who is the Audience”? Peter Newman’s Bulletin Board post feeds on the same vein. On Oct.18th I am giving a talk to the Gilmer Fine Artist in Ellijay, Georgia, on a very similar subject.
From the late 19th Century through 21st century art culture has experienced many different “movements” and patrons of the arts either liked what they saw or showed less interest, or none at all. Similar emotions and debate, again, manifest within 21st century photographic art.
I suggest we have changed our view of what constitutes Fine Art photography in 21st century photography.
Here we see a paradigm shift in how students of photography (and I am mostly speaking to club and online generation of photographers) initially approach and contemplate the artistic values/merits of their work: it has become all about how a particular work will be accepted in competitions rather than studying photographic work for the sake of its “artistic” nature or appeal: we ask questions that begin with...’so, is my work OK to enter a competition?’ or...’is it contest worthy?’ We talk more about the “rule of thirds”, for example, sometimes in a tone or manner that seem absolute, where in my workshops I do not discuss the rule-of-thirds but for a brief moment, and instead discuss in great detail the process of “visualization” as a means of inspiring creativity and compositional structure that is engaging, provocative and may well be viewed “non-competitive” to local club pictorial agendas.
Photographic Society of America (PSA) inspired photography is heavily biased on the aesthetics and narrative created through digital alterations as seen in illustrative or altered-reality like photographic based art, where instead, the work is “Creative” (as defined by PSA Creative DD group). The work mostly viewed in this Fine Art DD-79 (and also DD77) are of this nature…that is, redefining what dominates “Fine Art” photography. The work here is almost identical (for all practical purposes) to “Creative” DD group photographic art. “Fine Art” photography, seen from a traditional posture, has seemingly morphed into something else: so, where does this lead….
We are in an era, what I term, “hybrid-genres” (which is on the heels of philosopher Jerrold Levison views on “Hybrid Artforms” 1984, and Claire Anscomb 2019 paper…Photography, Digital Technology, and Hybrid Artforms, 2019, where Anscomb refers to...” evolving arts”). Here, I suggest we are seeing a metamorphosis within the photography genre: within the realm of digital photography ½“ an array of digital-art manifestations (hybrid-genres) has been born, which has brought a certain degree of disparity: here a paradigm shift has been realized, where everyone questions what they are looking at: viewers’ first impression of photography is often one of skepticism. To mitigate this skepticism, for our 3rd Annual Photography Exhibition (at Gilmer Arts, in Ellijay, Ga) I again was clear on presenting two category-genres for the artist to enter, and again, proved successful from the standpoint of artists, and patrons of the art.
Fine Art Photography form a Traditional Posture:
Ansel Adams, Henri Cartier-Bresson, are two very good examples Peter offers as comparison to the ever-needing “competitive” composition that occupies the majority of work circulating throughout clubs, guilds and online institutions all around the world. Ansel Adams Moonrise, Hernandez, New Mexico 1941, seen both with and without heavy Dodge and Burning, represents a clear and authentic landscape composition, the pure essence of what a skilled user can achieve from behind the viewfinder. It is Fine Art Photography at its best, as also enjoyed by examples of Henri Cartier-Bresson work...as well as all of my serious photographic art is designed for...the sake of art.
Thank you, guys!
Lance A. Lewin
PSA Black & White Photography Mentor
PSA South Atlantic Area Membership Director
DD-83 Mono and DD87 General Administrator
http://visualizingart.com Posted: 10/12/2021 08:20:59
From the late 19th Century through 21st century art culture has experienced many different “movements” and patrons of the arts either liked what they saw or showed less interest, or none at all. Similar emotions and debate, again, manifest within 21st century photographic art.
I suggest we have changed our view of what constitutes Fine Art photography in 21st century photography.
Here we see a paradigm shift in how students of photography (and I am mostly speaking to club and online generation of photographers) initially approach and contemplate the artistic values/merits of their work: it has become all about how a particular work will be accepted in competitions rather than studying photographic work for the sake of its “artistic” nature or appeal: we ask questions that begin with...’so, is my work OK to enter a competition?’ or...’is it contest worthy?’ We talk more about the “rule of thirds”, for example, sometimes in a tone or manner that seem absolute, where in my workshops I do not discuss the rule-of-thirds but for a brief moment, and instead discuss in great detail the process of “visualization” as a means of inspiring creativity and compositional structure that is engaging, provocative and may well be viewed “non-competitive” to local club pictorial agendas.
Photographic Society of America (PSA) inspired photography is heavily biased on the aesthetics and narrative created through digital alterations as seen in illustrative or altered-reality like photographic based art, where instead, the work is “Creative” (as defined by PSA Creative DD group). The work mostly viewed in this Fine Art DD-79 (and also DD77) are of this nature…that is, redefining what dominates “Fine Art” photography. The work here is almost identical (for all practical purposes) to “Creative” DD group photographic art. “Fine Art” photography, seen from a traditional posture, has seemingly morphed into something else: so, where does this lead….
We are in an era, what I term, “hybrid-genres” (which is on the heels of philosopher Jerrold Levison views on “Hybrid Artforms” 1984, and Claire Anscomb 2019 paper…Photography, Digital Technology, and Hybrid Artforms, 2019, where Anscomb refers to...” evolving arts”). Here, I suggest we are seeing a metamorphosis within the photography genre: within the realm of digital photography ½“ an array of digital-art manifestations (hybrid-genres) has been born, which has brought a certain degree of disparity: here a paradigm shift has been realized, where everyone questions what they are looking at: viewers’ first impression of photography is often one of skepticism. To mitigate this skepticism, for our 3rd Annual Photography Exhibition (at Gilmer Arts, in Ellijay, Ga) I again was clear on presenting two category-genres for the artist to enter, and again, proved successful from the standpoint of artists, and patrons of the art.
Fine Art Photography form a Traditional Posture:
Ansel Adams, Henri Cartier-Bresson, are two very good examples Peter offers as comparison to the ever-needing “competitive” composition that occupies the majority of work circulating throughout clubs, guilds and online institutions all around the world. Ansel Adams Moonrise, Hernandez, New Mexico 1941, seen both with and without heavy Dodge and Burning, represents a clear and authentic landscape composition, the pure essence of what a skilled user can achieve from behind the viewfinder. It is Fine Art Photography at its best, as also enjoyed by examples of Henri Cartier-Bresson work...as well as all of my serious photographic art is designed for...the sake of art.
Thank you, guys!
Lance A. Lewin
PSA Black & White Photography Mentor
PSA South Atlantic Area Membership Director
DD-83 Mono and DD87 General Administrator
http://visualizingart.com Posted: 10/12/2021 08:20:59
Please,visit DD-83 Mono Bulletin Board and read the full, original topic inspired by Witta of DD-77 Fine Art. Thank you. Posted: 10/12/2021 10:23:11
Thread Title: Is there a difference between Fine Art Photography, and a good, interpretative image. image
I figured that since we have a BB, this topic might be an interesting starter. I am convinced that camera club judges would rarely give a high score to good fine art. e.g. Henri Cartier-Bresson: Part of a bicycle wheel might be out of the image; the whole image might not be in focus; etc. How well would the impressions of Charles Needle, Tony Sweet, Lisa Langell, John Dexter, etc., score in a CC competition.
More importantly, how can we explain the difference between a postcard/catalog shot and a good photograph, to a beginning photo artist. Posted: 05/09/2021 23:48:35
More importantly, how can we explain the difference between a postcard/catalog shot and a good photograph, to a beginning photo artist. Posted: 05/09/2021 23:48:35
Thank you for starting this thread Peter! Your question probes the very heart of of our art. What indeed is "Fine Art Photography"? I will gather thoughts and jump back in. Posted: 05/10/2021 08:53:48
At Lisa Langell's webinar tonight, when she showed her first image of using photography for as home decoration, using frames with plain white paper instead of images, at first I didn't realize they were just placeholders. In the museum image I posted last week, the framed paper was definitely not a placeholder. Posted: 05/21/2021 22:02:16
This should start a good discussion. I can tell you that the images of the photographers you mention would score high in a camera club competition, if entered under a Creative category. I am a friend of Charles Needle. Don't assume that camera clubs do not recognize Fine Art interpretations. I have been working with camera clubs for 11 years; am current President of the Northwest Council of Camera Clubs representing 20 clubs in Washington State. Most clubs would recognize Fine Arts.
The difference between a postcard/catalog shot and a good photograph? What draws the viewer into the photo? What story can it tell? What experience of emotional impact does the photo create? Is there a style of the maker that inspires others? Does the photograph use creative technology to impress and to give the viewer a reaction as a unique artistic statement? Posted: 05/10/2021 12:07:05
The difference between a postcard/catalog shot and a good photograph? What draws the viewer into the photo? What story can it tell? What experience of emotional impact does the photo create? Is there a style of the maker that inspires others? Does the photograph use creative technology to impress and to give the viewer a reaction as a unique artistic statement? Posted: 05/10/2021 12:07:05
Great discussion going -- please continue it! I am really a beginner and don't enter contests, so I will just study what you say. Posted: 05/10/2021 14:10:50
Lauren, Mea Culpa. I should have made that comment in a different thread. I suspect that you have some very knowledgeable judges. I am friends with several well known photo artists, who have said they would never judge a CC again, because their comments did not conform to CC "rules." When commenting on images in the creative category, (not only mine,) the words: "I don't know what it is," are uttered.
We all like different things. Assuming the same value, I would prefer a Monet, to a Vermeer, hanging on my wall.
Posted: 05/12/2021 19:54:56
We all like different things. Assuming the same value, I would prefer a Monet, to a Vermeer, hanging on my wall.
Posted: 05/12/2021 19:54:56
Hey Peter, I like Monet too, and I have heard and said the "I don't know what it is" comment. Actually I am organizing a class for our club to learn the be commentators that is given by the PSA. I would like to invite you to our online zoom digital night.Puget Sound Camera Club meets the 2nd Monday of the month at 7pm. Anyone else interested is welcome to visit. We have a Creative Category, which is growing. Email me for the zoom link Lauren@Heerschap.com Posted: 05/13/2021 17:15:11
Me too! Posted: 05/16/2021 20:59:50
I often think of fine art photography as images that don't fit other classifications well. Some so-called 'fine' art photography is what I would consider overpriced trash or an analog to elevator music. Other fine art photography can elicit emotion and creative envy. An interpretive image tells a story that can be understood by most viewers. The images in Decisive Moment exemplify that even though some may not live up to contemporary PSA judging conventions. If I'm doing photojournalism or street photography, the story moment is all important. Maybe the image will be art but that's not the basic objective. In fine art photography we let our hair down, try different stuff, create images from our imagination, inspirations or mistakes, and then see if anyone responds. Karl Posted: 05/16/2021 11:38:51
The image below, which is a museum installation, fits your first sentence to a "T."
<br />Also see <http://mijnspijkersoplaagwater.blogspot.com/2016/08/whos-afraid-of-red-yellow-and-blue.html>
<br />
<br />As for creating emotion, compare the original AA prints with reproductions. I can't say why, but the original of Moonrise, caused the hairs on my back to stand up. An interpretive image is the artists interpretation. There must be hundreds of thousands images of Half-Dome tat were taken from the same spot as AA did. Yet how many are worth a second glance. Posted: 05/16/2021 15:06:15
<br />Also see <http://mijnspijkersoplaagwater.blogspot.com/2016/08/whos-afraid-of-red-yellow-and-blue.html>
<br />
<br />As for creating emotion, compare the original AA prints with reproductions. I can't say why, but the original of Moonrise, caused the hairs on my back to stand up. An interpretive image is the artists interpretation. There must be hundreds of thousands images of Half-Dome tat were taken from the same spot as AA did. Yet how many are worth a second glance. Posted: 05/16/2021 15:06:15