Group 18 Bulletin Board
2 threads - 23 total comments
This page is dedicated to discussions about our theme that are outside the scope of our monthly images.
Thanks for your comments Gunter. As long as I am in charge of DD Creative will remain the same. I hope this ends this discussion, I this it has gone beyond the pale -++ Posted: 09/26/2024 15:26:31
Thread Title: Identifying photography: “classic traditionâ€, Hybrid, Multimedia, Graphic Arts, Digital Photographic Art
Identifying photography: ⬓classic traditionâ¬, Hybrid, Multimedia, Graphic Arts, Digital Photographic Art:
How do we ⬓appreciate⬠work within the scope of the digital photography revolution?
This short piece is in response to questions Gunter Haibach (DD-18) presented to me on his September 2024 featured work. The conversation is ongoing, and we look forward to other participants joining in. (Please, review Haibach's work and associated comments before joining in. Thank you).
Digital, Hybrid, Multimedia Art ... something else?
Yes, in my opinion - within the context of 21st century photography, all these terms represent, essentially, the same type of photographic work. Prior to 2000, for example, Graphic Arts identified many types of commercial art which often used two or more processes or mediums to create ⬓multi-media⬠art. These are creative visual representations where the final work is not clearly representing an actual reality. Graphic Arts easily falls into this category, and even in a 1904 essay by Sadakichi Hartmann (1867-1944) showed his disdain towards many pictorial examples as he noted some photographers ... ⬘overstep all legitimate boundaries and deliberately mix up photography with the technical devices of painting and the graphic arts⬙. Of course, Hartmann was a strong supporter of ⬓straight photography⬠so his negative bias for some pictorial alternatives was expected.
Working with photography and digital tools for creativity is essential to 20th and 21st century graphic artists: I worked with my daughter on several of her projects (she used digital creativity and photography) supplying her with photographic images she used while studying graphic arts at Kennesaw State in the late 90⬙s. Today, more people refer to such work (especially outside of commercial usage) as Digital Art, or as you noted, ⬘Digital Photographic Art⬙, which I like a lot, for two pictorial category examples within the realm of Fine Art Photography.
⬓Classic Traditionâ¬, Creative, Pictorial, Fine Art? And where is the creative part?
In the ⬓classic tradition⬠of photography (Barbara Savedoff 2001) Savedoff was identifying the work of mostly 20th century photographers ... during this time (and late 19th century, too) creative or pictorial photography was any image that was outside the scope, for the most part, of documentary recordings: for example, Ansel Adams finished his work in the darkroom that transformed the image his camera registered through its lens to a reality that was more enhanced, nonetheless, still an image that imbued the essence of reality but, not an ⬓altered⬠reality, as defined within the scope of today's ⬘digital photographic art⬙, as Haibach refers to a lot of his own work. In the PSA⬙s Digital Dialogue Creative groups, ⬓creative⬠goes beyond enhancing like Adams did, instead the artist photographer takes a photographic image and then either transforms its actual appearance or interjects the subject into some imaginative space, or both. The actual use of both the photograph, and then using post-production tools to digitally alter the subjects appearance, or create a new space to place the subject in, is clearly an example of Hybrid art: many types of graphic art, too, are, hybrid art.
We are in an era that sees, what I term, ⬓hybrid-genres⬠(which is on the heels of philosopher Jerrold Levison views on ⬓hybrid artforms⬠1984, and Claire Anscomb 2019 paperâ¬Photography, Digital Technology, and Hybrid Artforms, 2019, where Anscomb refers to...⬠evolving artsâ¬). Here, I suggest we are seeing a metamorphosis within the photography genre: within the realm of digital photography an array of digital-art manifestations (hybrid-genres) has been born, which has brought a certain degree of disparity: here a paradigm shift has been realized, where everyone questions what they are looking at: viewers⬙ first impression of photography is often one of skepticism.
⬒
Let me end by getting back to our 20th century example with Ansel Adam⬙s: his pictorial collection (and others, too) was also deemed Fine Art Photography. Alternatively, in the 21st century, many exhibitions categorize/associate Fine Art Photography with all types of digitally manipulated work. Of course, this is another area often deliberated between artists, patrons of the arts, and philosophers, but in short, the often (and inconsistent) categories representing photography (in local camera clubs and online competitions, for two examples) has made it increasingly difficult in how patrons of the arts contemplate and appreciate photography.
Artificial Intelligent (A.I.) Generated Photography
Yes, me too, don⬙t get me started on AI generated photography!! I just gave a presentation at the International Visual Sociology Association (IVSA) 2024 conference in Xalapa, Mexico titled ... Impostors of the Real: Feeding a Fire of Skepticism through Digitally Manipulated images and A.I. Generated Photography.
I hope this short essay inspires more thinking on this very deep and engaging discourse. Thank you.
Lance A. Lewin ⬓ Fine Art Photographer
PSA Global B&W Photography Mentor
PSA South Atlantic Area Membership Director
International Visual Sociology Association (IVSA) North American-Canada Region Think Tank
Contact: lance.visualizingart@gmail.com
Posted: 09/19/2024 11:01:07
How do we ⬓appreciate⬠work within the scope of the digital photography revolution?
This short piece is in response to questions Gunter Haibach (DD-18) presented to me on his September 2024 featured work. The conversation is ongoing, and we look forward to other participants joining in. (Please, review Haibach's work and associated comments before joining in. Thank you).
Digital, Hybrid, Multimedia Art ... something else?
Yes, in my opinion - within the context of 21st century photography, all these terms represent, essentially, the same type of photographic work. Prior to 2000, for example, Graphic Arts identified many types of commercial art which often used two or more processes or mediums to create ⬓multi-media⬠art. These are creative visual representations where the final work is not clearly representing an actual reality. Graphic Arts easily falls into this category, and even in a 1904 essay by Sadakichi Hartmann (1867-1944) showed his disdain towards many pictorial examples as he noted some photographers ... ⬘overstep all legitimate boundaries and deliberately mix up photography with the technical devices of painting and the graphic arts⬙. Of course, Hartmann was a strong supporter of ⬓straight photography⬠so his negative bias for some pictorial alternatives was expected.
Working with photography and digital tools for creativity is essential to 20th and 21st century graphic artists: I worked with my daughter on several of her projects (she used digital creativity and photography) supplying her with photographic images she used while studying graphic arts at Kennesaw State in the late 90⬙s. Today, more people refer to such work (especially outside of commercial usage) as Digital Art, or as you noted, ⬘Digital Photographic Art⬙, which I like a lot, for two pictorial category examples within the realm of Fine Art Photography.
⬓Classic Traditionâ¬, Creative, Pictorial, Fine Art? And where is the creative part?
In the ⬓classic tradition⬠of photography (Barbara Savedoff 2001) Savedoff was identifying the work of mostly 20th century photographers ... during this time (and late 19th century, too) creative or pictorial photography was any image that was outside the scope, for the most part, of documentary recordings: for example, Ansel Adams finished his work in the darkroom that transformed the image his camera registered through its lens to a reality that was more enhanced, nonetheless, still an image that imbued the essence of reality but, not an ⬓altered⬠reality, as defined within the scope of today's ⬘digital photographic art⬙, as Haibach refers to a lot of his own work. In the PSA⬙s Digital Dialogue Creative groups, ⬓creative⬠goes beyond enhancing like Adams did, instead the artist photographer takes a photographic image and then either transforms its actual appearance or interjects the subject into some imaginative space, or both. The actual use of both the photograph, and then using post-production tools to digitally alter the subjects appearance, or create a new space to place the subject in, is clearly an example of Hybrid art: many types of graphic art, too, are, hybrid art.
We are in an era that sees, what I term, ⬓hybrid-genres⬠(which is on the heels of philosopher Jerrold Levison views on ⬓hybrid artforms⬠1984, and Claire Anscomb 2019 paperâ¬Photography, Digital Technology, and Hybrid Artforms, 2019, where Anscomb refers to...⬠evolving artsâ¬). Here, I suggest we are seeing a metamorphosis within the photography genre: within the realm of digital photography an array of digital-art manifestations (hybrid-genres) has been born, which has brought a certain degree of disparity: here a paradigm shift has been realized, where everyone questions what they are looking at: viewers⬙ first impression of photography is often one of skepticism.
⬒
Let me end by getting back to our 20th century example with Ansel Adam⬙s: his pictorial collection (and others, too) was also deemed Fine Art Photography. Alternatively, in the 21st century, many exhibitions categorize/associate Fine Art Photography with all types of digitally manipulated work. Of course, this is another area often deliberated between artists, patrons of the arts, and philosophers, but in short, the often (and inconsistent) categories representing photography (in local camera clubs and online competitions, for two examples) has made it increasingly difficult in how patrons of the arts contemplate and appreciate photography.
Artificial Intelligent (A.I.) Generated Photography
Yes, me too, don⬙t get me started on AI generated photography!! I just gave a presentation at the International Visual Sociology Association (IVSA) 2024 conference in Xalapa, Mexico titled ... Impostors of the Real: Feeding a Fire of Skepticism through Digitally Manipulated images and A.I. Generated Photography.
I hope this short essay inspires more thinking on this very deep and engaging discourse. Thank you.
Lance A. Lewin ⬓ Fine Art Photographer
PSA Global B&W Photography Mentor
PSA South Atlantic Area Membership Director
International Visual Sociology Association (IVSA) North American-Canada Region Think Tank
Contact: lance.visualizingart@gmail.com
Posted: 09/19/2024 11:01:07
I asked Ian to post a BB for our group, thinking you would give us some insight into "Creative" photography. I also asked Barbara if DDG managers could take another look at whether Alternative Reality or another name would be more fitting. Her response was "No." She said that PSA felt Altered Reality was too closely related to AI image creation.
In my opinion, we are discussing whether terminology has meaning within our group. Gunter said he is now confused by your comment, as was I. Please review our comments/replies on my image this month- https://psadigital.org/group18/image.php?iid=99510
https://psadigital.org/group18/about.php explains our groups guidelines and since there are no plans to change the definition or name of creative groups, I am still confused as to what you are hoping to gain from this thread. Posted: 09/19/2024 13:09:10
In my opinion, we are discussing whether terminology has meaning within our group. Gunter said he is now confused by your comment, as was I. Please review our comments/replies on my image this month- https://psadigital.org/group18/image.php?iid=99510
https://psadigital.org/group18/about.php explains our groups guidelines and since there are no plans to change the definition or name of creative groups, I am still confused as to what you are hoping to gain from this thread. Posted: 09/19/2024 13:09:10
Hi Bob! These are great questions and ones I expected .... Q&A is always a good space/time to clarify
text and the context it appears. (Note I read you comments/questions and they echo Gunters). The piece was
written to include a wider scope of thinking than just ideas strictly related to your and Gunters questions.
1. There purpose of the piece is to satisfy Gunter's question in helping him understand how/why I was differentiating between the different (digital) categorizations, and especially the use of Graphic Arts; this was also compared to Ansel Adams "enhanced" work, which is NOT an altered reality (or graphic art) in the context of what is expected in this DD group. In addition, I offered examples from past experience and words/thinking of others to help clarify between terms. (Also, I decided to include other thinking (related) to the topic in hopes of inspiring more questions, but hopefully not generating confusion).
2. I already offered what "Altered Reality" means or how /what determines it, and thus help to explain why
this term is used in the DD-Creative group description. I also clearly identified the Graphic Art perspective and relation to other similar creative work within a digital context.
3. "Creative" is a wide brush stoke, indeed, and within the 21st century context of photography we enjoy the wide scope of terminology, tools, skillsets and of course, the wide diversity in creative interpretations regardless if deemed appropriate in commercial, fine art, or both. As such I feel the title "Creative" is appropriate .... however, perhaps the description can be modified to speak/focus on more specifics in what actually makes a "Creative" photographic ... some wording in my piece would work in this respect. I will speak to Barbara about this. Thank you.
Posted: 09/19/2024 15:53:39
text and the context it appears. (Note I read you comments/questions and they echo Gunters). The piece was
written to include a wider scope of thinking than just ideas strictly related to your and Gunters questions.
1. There purpose of the piece is to satisfy Gunter's question in helping him understand how/why I was differentiating between the different (digital) categorizations, and especially the use of Graphic Arts; this was also compared to Ansel Adams "enhanced" work, which is NOT an altered reality (or graphic art) in the context of what is expected in this DD group. In addition, I offered examples from past experience and words/thinking of others to help clarify between terms. (Also, I decided to include other thinking (related) to the topic in hopes of inspiring more questions, but hopefully not generating confusion).
2. I already offered what "Altered Reality" means or how /what determines it, and thus help to explain why
this term is used in the DD-Creative group description. I also clearly identified the Graphic Art perspective and relation to other similar creative work within a digital context.
3. "Creative" is a wide brush stoke, indeed, and within the 21st century context of photography we enjoy the wide scope of terminology, tools, skillsets and of course, the wide diversity in creative interpretations regardless if deemed appropriate in commercial, fine art, or both. As such I feel the title "Creative" is appropriate .... however, perhaps the description can be modified to speak/focus on more specifics in what actually makes a "Creative" photographic ... some wording in my piece would work in this respect. I will speak to Barbara about this. Thank you.
Posted: 09/19/2024 15:53:39
Thanks, Lance. I also CC'd Pete Morton and Tom P, but didn't hear from them. Posted: 09/19/2024 16:48:38
Thanks, Lance
Unfortunately your essay is much too technical for me, but what I think it says is that the naming convention is not so important - so for my Digital Dialogue entries, I'll continue to use - Digital Photography Art .
As far as the definition/guidelines for PSA Creative/Altered Reality are concerned, they work for me.
It's easy to overthink this category, and get confused, and detract from the whole idea of sharing our pictures and receiving/giving input by the team members as to what they like about the image, and suggestions for improvement, or other approaches. Posted: 09/20/2024 03:46:06
Unfortunately your essay is much too technical for me, but what I think it says is that the naming convention is not so important - so for my Digital Dialogue entries, I'll continue to use - Digital Photography Art .
As far as the definition/guidelines for PSA Creative/Altered Reality are concerned, they work for me.
It's easy to overthink this category, and get confused, and detract from the whole idea of sharing our pictures and receiving/giving input by the team members as to what they like about the image, and suggestions for improvement, or other approaches. Posted: 09/20/2024 03:46:06
Happy Friday, Gunter.
Please, which area in the essay you feel is too technical?
I will argue, the current description for "Creative" DD groups can be misleading. This can lead to comments/critiques that are not on-point. A more clear description needs to clearly identify participant guidelines in creating/presenting their work. Posted: 09/20/2024 11:19:55
Please, which area in the essay you feel is too technical?
I will argue, the current description for "Creative" DD groups can be misleading. This can lead to comments/critiques that are not on-point. A more clear description needs to clearly identify participant guidelines in creating/presenting their work. Posted: 09/20/2024 11:19:55
Hi Lance
Your essay shows your knowledge and passion on art and design and history - but it seems to me that the ideal audience would be someone with a similar, formal background as yourself. I think I get some of it, but it's mostly "over my head".
As I mentioned, the PSA Definition/Guideline for "Creative" mostly works for me.
I also appreciate that this is a very complicated topic, and consequently some things will remain undefined or unclear, but that's the nature of this beast.
I see the current definition as a 'bare bones' attempt.
I'd be interested what you would add/delete/change to make it more useful for our DD Creative groups. I'd be happy to continue this dialogue, to ideally create a user-friendly reference for our DD members. I'd be interested on Barbaras take on this as well.
Posted: 09/21/2024 15:11:38
Your essay shows your knowledge and passion on art and design and history - but it seems to me that the ideal audience would be someone with a similar, formal background as yourself. I think I get some of it, but it's mostly "over my head".
As I mentioned, the PSA Definition/Guideline for "Creative" mostly works for me.
I also appreciate that this is a very complicated topic, and consequently some things will remain undefined or unclear, but that's the nature of this beast.
I see the current definition as a 'bare bones' attempt.
I'd be interested what you would add/delete/change to make it more useful for our DD Creative groups. I'd be happy to continue this dialogue, to ideally create a user-friendly reference for our DD members. I'd be interested on Barbaras take on this as well.
Posted: 09/21/2024 15:11:38
I have been following this thread and it seems to go round and round. Lance obviously has a lot of knowlege but I feel this is more suitable for a University disertation that for a simple photographer such as myself.
I think creativity starts with the photographers eye seeing potential in an image captured by a camera. Then it is the skill of the individual to apply more creativity by working on that image by either altering reality, compositing images
together and by other methods without using Artificial Intelligence.
That is what I have been doing in my 15 or so years in DD groups.
Lets not overcomplicate things.
Posted: 09/21/2024 18:38:49
I think creativity starts with the photographers eye seeing potential in an image captured by a camera. Then it is the skill of the individual to apply more creativity by working on that image by either altering reality, compositing images
together and by other methods without using Artificial Intelligence.
That is what I have been doing in my 15 or so years in DD groups.
Lets not overcomplicate things.
Posted: 09/21/2024 18:38:49
Ian - thanks for adding your thoughts to this topic. Can you clarify whether you've used the PSA Creativity/Altered Reality definition in all the years you've been contributing to the Creative/Altered Realty groups you belong to. Would you change, add, or delete anything in the definition/guidelines?
I sense a fair amount of confusion by members in the Creative Groups, as to what is expected to participate. Most of the confusion has to do with normal, creative actions we use in making our pictures vs creating altered reality images from our originals for DDG 18 and others. Two very different processes. Posted: 09/22/2024 00:30:01
I sense a fair amount of confusion by members in the Creative Groups, as to what is expected to participate. Most of the confusion has to do with normal, creative actions we use in making our pictures vs creating altered reality images from our originals for DDG 18 and others. Two very different processes. Posted: 09/22/2024 00:30:01
Yes Gunter I have used that definition all along and see no need to amend it.
See also my respose below to Bob. Posted: 09/22/2024 16:55:05
See also my respose below to Bob. Posted: 09/22/2024 16:55:05
Lance visited our group this month to comment. His comment on Gunter's work sparked the BB discussion which is relevant to DD in as much as a couple of us, at least, are a bit confused as to what we are supposed to be doing. Discussing this off the group is better for the group, I think.
Some creative group members rely on filters, some on composites (there is only one composite group (54), some on phone technology etc. What I think would or could be helpful is for Creative to be broken down into more groups with identification such as Compositing, Filtered, In-Camera etc. I'm not good at this part so I'll quit guessing.
I think each group member could then have a choice of their own method of creation and get comments based on that work. I hope this makes sense. Posted: 09/22/2024 16:36:18
Some creative group members rely on filters, some on composites (there is only one composite group (54), some on phone technology etc. What I think would or could be helpful is for Creative to be broken down into more groups with identification such as Compositing, Filtered, In-Camera etc. I'm not good at this part so I'll quit guessing.
I think each group member could then have a choice of their own method of creation and get comments based on that work. I hope this makes sense. Posted: 09/22/2024 16:36:18
Bob, surely that just complictes things. All those categories are creative and including them all in a single creative group allows members to see the wide variety of techniques and perhaps be encouraged to try something new. Posted: 09/22/2024 16:51:51
Bob makes a good point - but I agree with Ian.
To create groups by TOOLS used, might stifle overall creativity. Posted: 09/23/2024 14:29:56
To create groups by TOOLS used, might stifle overall creativity. Posted: 09/23/2024 14:29:56
Proposed alternative "Creative" description could be ....
"The Creative Photography critique group supports images that transcend literal interpretations of the subject and its surrounding space that was originally registered onto film or a digital sensor. Using any type of post-production methodology, the artist photographer creates an alternative visual interpretation: where the subject⬙s appearance and / or the surrounding space are highly modified. Thus, the finished piece is one that no photographic recording device could have ever recorded. (Pre-sets and filters are discouraged, but allowed; Artificial Intelligent (A.I.) generated images are not allowed)".
Prepared by Lance A. Lewin 2024 Posted: 09/22/2024 20:49:09
"The Creative Photography critique group supports images that transcend literal interpretations of the subject and its surrounding space that was originally registered onto film or a digital sensor. Using any type of post-production methodology, the artist photographer creates an alternative visual interpretation: where the subject⬙s appearance and / or the surrounding space are highly modified. Thus, the finished piece is one that no photographic recording device could have ever recorded. (Pre-sets and filters are discouraged, but allowed; Artificial Intelligent (A.I.) generated images are not allowed)".
Prepared by Lance A. Lewin 2024 Posted: 09/22/2024 20:49:09
Also, I really appreciate the honest responses/thinking on the essay you all have provided!
Agree, it has some academic vibrations, but I did that to help focus attention on how "Creative" photography is seen, for the most part, within the photography community as a whole ... or otherwise, spaces not necessarily within PSA's borders. Thank you, guys! Posted: 09/22/2024 20:55:35
Agree, it has some academic vibrations, but I did that to help focus attention on how "Creative" photography is seen, for the most part, within the photography community as a whole ... or otherwise, spaces not necessarily within PSA's borders. Thank you, guys! Posted: 09/22/2024 20:55:35
I agree that the (Pre-sets and filters are discouraged but allowed; Artificial Intelligent (A.I.) generated images are not allowed)" could be added but that might not be followed in groups. I think that Ian echoes PID and Barbara and her management team's wishes.
Thank you, Lance, for your thoughtful essay and discussion. Hopefully, others in the group will at least have read our posts and may want to contribute their thoughts at some point. Posted: 09/23/2024 13:06:15
Thank you, Lance, for your thoughtful essay and discussion. Hopefully, others in the group will at least have read our posts and may want to contribute their thoughts at some point. Posted: 09/23/2024 13:06:15
I respectfully disagree - it seems to me, that a fair amount of Creative producers use these tools (including myself). With some limitations (Ai, for one), I'm more concerned with producing an impactful Creative image, than limiting the tools we have available.
I also want to thank Lance, for making us ponder and think - always healthy.
See my DRAFT, for a version of an Altered Reality definition/guideline. Using input from this Bulletin Board participants, and my take on this topic.
See what you think.
PSA Definition (/Guidelines ?) Of Creative Photography
The PSA definition of Creative is ⬓Altered Realityâ¬
Objective: Significantly altering an original image so that it departs from reality (The finished piece is one that no camera could have ever recorded)
ORIGINAL Image
- Must be made by the entrant, either captured digitally, on film, or photographic emulsion.
- May not incorporate elements produced by someone else
- Can include artwork or computer generated graphics produced by the
entrant - as long as the original photographic content predominates
- Image may not be constructed entirely within a computer
ALTERED REALITY Image
-
- -
Alterations could include
- Change in natural colour
- Significant change in the form of the subject ( height/width)
- Significant change in the shape of the subject (height/width/depth)
- Combining several image (Compositing) and use of Ps Blending Modes
- Use of Filters and Presets ?
- Intentional Camera Movement (ICM) - etc/etc/etc
Some aspect of the original image must still be identifiable in the A.R. version
Altered Realty features should be readily apparent to the viewer
NOTES:
- Some experience with Photoshop ( or similar software) is a significant enabler in producing an A.R. image that reflects the makers imagination
- HDR images without further alterations is not considered A.R.
- B&W conversions - A.R. or not ?
- A.I. generated images are not allowed in this category
- High impact A.R. images do still depend on the judicial use of normal Photo
Art uses of Composition, Colour, and Tonality Posted: 09/23/2024 14:41:16
I also want to thank Lance, for making us ponder and think - always healthy.
See my DRAFT, for a version of an Altered Reality definition/guideline. Using input from this Bulletin Board participants, and my take on this topic.
See what you think.
PSA Definition (/Guidelines ?) Of Creative Photography
The PSA definition of Creative is ⬓Altered Realityâ¬
Objective: Significantly altering an original image so that it departs from reality (The finished piece is one that no camera could have ever recorded)
ORIGINAL Image
- Must be made by the entrant, either captured digitally, on film, or photographic emulsion.
- May not incorporate elements produced by someone else
- Can include artwork or computer generated graphics produced by the
entrant - as long as the original photographic content predominates
- Image may not be constructed entirely within a computer
ALTERED REALITY Image
-
- -
Alterations could include
- Change in natural colour
- Significant change in the form of the subject ( height/width)
- Significant change in the shape of the subject (height/width/depth)
- Combining several image (Compositing) and use of Ps Blending Modes
- Use of Filters and Presets ?
- Intentional Camera Movement (ICM) - etc/etc/etc
Some aspect of the original image must still be identifiable in the A.R. version
Altered Realty features should be readily apparent to the viewer
NOTES:
- Some experience with Photoshop ( or similar software) is a significant enabler in producing an A.R. image that reflects the makers imagination
- HDR images without further alterations is not considered A.R.
- B&W conversions - A.R. or not ?
- A.I. generated images are not allowed in this category
- High impact A.R. images do still depend on the judicial use of normal Photo
Art uses of Composition, Colour, and Tonality Posted: 09/23/2024 14:41:16
Thank you. Lots of work Gunter. I'm going to try to clarify my agreement with Lance (Pre-sets and filters are discouraged but allowed.)
I think just picking out a filter and applying it should be discouraged but allowed under the guidelines Barabara has set as: "in other words this category is designed for the creme de la creme of digital imaging."
I don't know what presets we are talking about, so I hesitate to express an opinion on that. If it is just the presets that come with editing programs to set color, WB, or whatever else they do to help the camera generated jpeg in a RAW file, I use them too. That camera generated jpeg is required as the RAW file is just an instruction set of unprocessed, uncompressed image data.
Some aspects of the original image must still be identifiable in the A.R. version. Altered Realty features should be readily apparent to the viewer. I disagree with setting any limits like these.
Posted: 09/23/2024 16:52:46
I think just picking out a filter and applying it should be discouraged but allowed under the guidelines Barabara has set as: "in other words this category is designed for the creme de la creme of digital imaging."
I don't know what presets we are talking about, so I hesitate to express an opinion on that. If it is just the presets that come with editing programs to set color, WB, or whatever else they do to help the camera generated jpeg in a RAW file, I use them too. That camera generated jpeg is required as the RAW file is just an instruction set of unprocessed, uncompressed image data.
Some aspects of the original image must still be identifiable in the A.R. version. Altered Realty features should be readily apparent to the viewer. I disagree with setting any limits like these.
Posted: 09/23/2024 16:52:46
Yes, indeed, this has been a very healthy conversation, which has brought to light a wide scope of creative skill sets, digital-tools and personal philosophies on how/what defines the "creative" micro-sub-genre within the PSA.
Thank you, everyone! Posted: 09/26/2024 01:55:56
Thank you, everyone! Posted: 09/26/2024 01:55:56
Bob, thanks for your response.
"Just picking out a filter..." - the skill is in picking the right one.
"Creme de la creme...." - I think she refers to the expertise in the use of Photoshop.
By the way, I'm a long way from that level of expertise! At the end of the day, it's the output that is important, not the tools used (except Ai, of course.
"Presets..." I think presets are just like filters, but more flexible. They are features in plug-ins such as NIK and Topaz and many others.
"Some aspects of original image must be identifiable...." - Was in the original definition, the idea being to being to readily see that an original photograph was used to make the altered version. I like it, as it reinforces that the A.R. version started from an Original.
Posted: 09/26/2024 14:50:38
"Just picking out a filter..." - the skill is in picking the right one.
"Creme de la creme...." - I think she refers to the expertise in the use of Photoshop.
By the way, I'm a long way from that level of expertise! At the end of the day, it's the output that is important, not the tools used (except Ai, of course.
"Presets..." I think presets are just like filters, but more flexible. They are features in plug-ins such as NIK and Topaz and many others.
"Some aspects of original image must be identifiable...." - Was in the original definition, the idea being to being to readily see that an original photograph was used to make the altered version. I like it, as it reinforces that the A.R. version started from an Original.
Posted: 09/26/2024 14:50:38
On AI Photorealism and the PSA: I wrote a letter to PSA administrators some time ago showing my distain for the PSA considering "Highlighting" anything related to "AI generated" photography: my argument was deemed sound. Also, along with members supporting my advocacy, my point is to help the PSA remain a pillar of support in the "classic tradition" while embracing the virtues born in 21st century photography.
It is very important to understand, AI generated photo-realistic imagery ... is NOT "photography", but more accurately, a system of image production that is "text-based" and thus has no place within the framework of the PSA and what the organization represents to photographers for decades.
The conversation we have here (DD18) is about the misleading terms used in the "Creative" description .... which actually includes the term, "altered reality" which is just too broad a term in the context of the ever-increasing evolution of digital photography. My proposed description for "Creative" is more concise, while also leaving in Barbara's important last statement (let me paraphrase) ... the image created is something no photographic device could have recorded. Indeed. (See my Draft posted somewhere above or email me to continue the conversation via lance.visualizingart@gmail.com);.
Thank you, everyone! Posted: 09/26/2024 12:07:30
It is very important to understand, AI generated photo-realistic imagery ... is NOT "photography", but more accurately, a system of image production that is "text-based" and thus has no place within the framework of the PSA and what the organization represents to photographers for decades.
The conversation we have here (DD18) is about the misleading terms used in the "Creative" description .... which actually includes the term, "altered reality" which is just too broad a term in the context of the ever-increasing evolution of digital photography. My proposed description for "Creative" is more concise, while also leaving in Barbara's important last statement (let me paraphrase) ... the image created is something no photographic device could have recorded. Indeed. (See my Draft posted somewhere above or email me to continue the conversation via lance.visualizingart@gmail.com);.
Thank you, everyone! Posted: 09/26/2024 12:07:30
In case anyone is still interested in thinking or working on an alternate definition of "Creative" - for he record, I've had second thoughts re: my proposal above. There are many ways to capture a creative image in just a camera - an example is ICR (Intentional Camera Movement). In my opinion, It would be a shame to not allow them in this category. Posted: 10/04/2024 15:39:38