Robert Atkins
November 2023 - Cathedral
Original
About the Image(s)
This image is another from my trip to Rainier this past summer. It is taken at the Mount Fremont lookout, an old fire lookout tower which is a popular hike, and from the crowd, apparently a popular spot to watch sunset. There was overcast which most of the crowd was not too happy about, but I was delighted with the alternative light show that it provided and captured a number of shots. I think this is my favorite in terms of the lighting.
I am not super happy with my original composition. I think between the changing light, tired legs, uncomfortable rocks, and a general concern about the 3 mi hike back which was to be done (and was) in the dark by headlamp, I rushed and didn’t really find the best arrangement. I’ve tried to save the composition with a crop which I think is at least stronger if not stellar. Mainly, I’d love comments on the composition and other crop possibilities that you all might consider.
Of course, given how close I was to the flowers, particularly in the original, it is a focus stack. It is also simultaneously an exposure blend to control the really bright portion of the sky. I am not sure I really have the post processing technique down to combine these two combinations, but I think it is all right here.
I could not help but believe in the end that the light was divine gifted - hence, the Cathedral title. I need to learn to enjoy these moments more while I am desperately trying to capture them.
Sony a9, Zeiss Loxia 21mm 2.8, f8, 1/60 sec (foreground with multiple shots focus stacked) and 1/125, 1/250, 1/500 sec (sky) exposure blend, ISO 100
This round’s discussion is now closed!
15 comments posted
Hi Robert, You were indeed lucky with the light. It is a beautiful image. I like the original better in terms of composition (is it leveled?) and also having a bit more of the flowers gives me a sense of the ascent. Maybe you could crop some of the left side and focus on the mountain range. Also, to my eyes there is still too much haze in the background. Definitely an image worth your time refining it. Posted: 11/13/2023 15:01:27
Thanks Gloria. Suspect I did level things since it is easy to see that right in the display and I generally check. I am not sure how I would know now from this particular image. But regardless, I can correct things so it "looks" more level. Good catch.
I've tried many, many different crops. I think Haru has it right that the problem is a visual balance issue. But most of the crops don't seem to fully correct this. I will keep playing with it. Posted: 11/15/2023 10:41:22
I've tried many, many different crops. I think Haru has it right that the problem is a visual balance issue. But most of the crops don't seem to fully correct this. I will keep playing with it. Posted: 11/15/2023 10:41:22
Hi Robert,
Thank you for sharing.
It is my challenging as well to stop shooting the magnificent scene and just appreciate myself being at the moment. I cannot help rushing to capture the scene.
For me "Wow" factor of this image comes from light rays in the mountain. Also, I really like the mountain ridge layers slightly poking in the haze. They are delicately presented here. The layers of foreground/midground, shows triangle line and add depth - which also is the strength of the image.
On the other hand, I feel that the image is right heavy in the balance. There is less to see in left half. Especially the mid left part is empty space for me.
Plese see my attached attempt;
1. Cropped left from the original. I reserve the rock pointing to the peak in lower left and leading line of rock ridge in lower right.
2. I really like a flower facing to the camera (it is a strong eye catcher for me as foreground). It is pity that there is no other flowers between the flowers grown in colonies. I need a bit of space in the bottom from "the flower" though.
3. I lighten up the rocks guiding to the main subject and darken down the rest.
I realized that there are minuses;
1. landscape vs portrait - I prefer landscape in this type of scene. I need horizontal space to present scale.
2. I had to crop out the mountains (which beautifully captured) in upper left. I wish I wanted to keep that.
3. It became too foreground heavy, which is not good. This is because I wanted to include "the flower". I need a bit more space in the sky.
Now, I found myself that your version looks better at the end.
Sorry, I might confuse you.
Posted: 11/13/2023 22:45:39
Thank you for sharing.
It is my challenging as well to stop shooting the magnificent scene and just appreciate myself being at the moment. I cannot help rushing to capture the scene.
For me "Wow" factor of this image comes from light rays in the mountain. Also, I really like the mountain ridge layers slightly poking in the haze. They are delicately presented here. The layers of foreground/midground, shows triangle line and add depth - which also is the strength of the image.
On the other hand, I feel that the image is right heavy in the balance. There is less to see in left half. Especially the mid left part is empty space for me.
Plese see my attached attempt;
1. Cropped left from the original. I reserve the rock pointing to the peak in lower left and leading line of rock ridge in lower right.
2. I really like a flower facing to the camera (it is a strong eye catcher for me as foreground). It is pity that there is no other flowers between the flowers grown in colonies. I need a bit of space in the bottom from "the flower" though.
3. I lighten up the rocks guiding to the main subject and darken down the rest.
I realized that there are minuses;
1. landscape vs portrait - I prefer landscape in this type of scene. I need horizontal space to present scale.
2. I had to crop out the mountains (which beautifully captured) in upper left. I wish I wanted to keep that.
3. It became too foreground heavy, which is not good. This is because I wanted to include "the flower". I need a bit more space in the sky.
Now, I found myself that your version looks better at the end.
Sorry, I might confuse you.
Posted: 11/13/2023 22:45:39
Hi Haru. Thank you for the comments and attempt - it was very clear. Particularly helpful was your comment about the visual balance. Yes, I think that is the problem, and crops seem to perhaps improve this but not eliminate it - but in some cases add other problems. I will keep playing with it and perhaps try to post again. Posted: 11/15/2023 10:47:05
Haru, if you have a minute, can you take a look at this new version? The key here was that I did a perspective transformation. I think it improves the composition a lot, but would love your perspective. Posted: 11/18/2023 10:02:12
Hi Robert,
Sorry to be late for replying. My apology.
Yes, it solved the visual balance pointed out.
However, the foreground becomes dominant in the frame and the beautiful mountains and sun rays become background, not main subject.
Now I was wonder if this yellow followers are strong enough. What was your story originally? I would ask this question. Posted: 11/25/2023 17:53:41
Sorry to be late for replying. My apology.
Yes, it solved the visual balance pointed out.
However, the foreground becomes dominant in the frame and the beautiful mountains and sun rays become background, not main subject.
Now I was wonder if this yellow followers are strong enough. What was your story originally? I would ask this question. Posted: 11/25/2023 17:53:41
This version just expands the too dark foreground. The Cathedral version submitted is closer to being better than this. You've made the sky even brighter.
I cropped the Cathedral in (16x9) modern screen Pano mode, slightly warmed everything and made the Mountain and Sky the subject.
If you had the time/endurance/equipment it might have been best to use a telephoto or normal lens. When using wide angle primes, we usually try to find a great foreground element, and in this scene, it really isn't needed. Your subject is obvious and just needs to be treated as best you can in post. Lightweight zooms save the legs. Posted: 11/26/2023 10:18:06
I cropped the Cathedral in (16x9) modern screen Pano mode, slightly warmed everything and made the Mountain and Sky the subject.
If you had the time/endurance/equipment it might have been best to use a telephoto or normal lens. When using wide angle primes, we usually try to find a great foreground element, and in this scene, it really isn't needed. Your subject is obvious and just needs to be treated as best you can in post. Lightweight zooms save the legs. Posted: 11/26/2023 10:18:06
Hey Robert. This is a beautiful image that you have captured. The rays of the sun are the highlight of the image. It is well composed in my opinion. The yellow flowers negate the dark rocks and add to the color. I would have preferred a little more space on the top of the image. Posted: 11/14/2023 10:37:15
Thanks Viren. That is helpful. I can try to "create" a little more space at the top. I'd also like to "create" a little more space at the bottom so the single flower (in the original) is not so close to the edge. The former is probably pretty easy. I think the later is going to be very challenging. Somehow content aware fill does not seem to work very well for me. Posted: 11/15/2023 10:50:09
Try Generative AI fill instead. Just another available tool option. Posted: 11/26/2023 10:29:04
Hi Robert,
You have enough foreground that would work well with your lens choice, but I can tell you want the god rays to be prominent, and the flowers are an excellent supporting element. I would consider a crop and I used the LR point color mixer to bring out the yellows a little, but there are a gazillion methods to bring out the color you saw or wished to see. Beautiful work. Posted: 11/17/2023 16:06:50
You have enough foreground that would work well with your lens choice, but I can tell you want the god rays to be prominent, and the flowers are an excellent supporting element. I would consider a crop and I used the LR point color mixer to bring out the yellows a little, but there are a gazillion methods to bring out the color you saw or wished to see. Beautiful work. Posted: 11/17/2023 16:06:50
Thanks Bob. Yes, I think there is still some exploring to be done with the crop, including trying to use content aware fill to create some room. I like the added yellows although probably would not go as far as you did. Posted: 11/18/2023 08:40:56
Your original vision (as I see it) was to use the Vee created by the foreground as an entrance to the background. The foreground was too dark and limited where the eye travels. I worked a little again on cropping the vee equally using a ruler as a horizontal guide on the top of the V as the guide. Then I added some Selective Color to the Neutral and Black areas. I think the image is worth any work you put into it. You have three great elements, and your V can be turned into a compelling Z. Posted: 11/18/2023 10:00:21
I think your version here definitely looks better compositionally than the two versions I posted (final and original). Take a look if you could at the version I just posted in response to Haru above. I used a perspective transform to fix what to me was a balance issue in the foreground with the flowers. The tones and colors still need work, but to me it flows a little better compositionally. But would love your perspective. Posted: 11/18/2023 10:08:07
I'm attaching a tone assessment image and to me the black areas still block the eye from traveling much, so I might work that a bit. The transform works for me, but I found it may be off level by -0.064 degrees. I'll just attach a second image to see what you think. Posted: 11/18/2023 10:26:32