Group 21 Bulletin Board


11 threads - 81 total comments

This page is dedicated to discussions about our theme (Creative) that are outside the scope of our monthly images.



Thread Title: What is considered "creative" in the Creative Groups in DD

Joan Field   Joan Field

This has come up in our grroup:
What is acceptable as a creative image for submissions to the group? The question is whether or not a final image sent in looks too realistic. The maker had almost always used filters or treatments in some program such as Photoshop, but the end product looked like it could have been entered in Pictorial and would not be able to compete in camera club or PSA A creative categories.
We would like to hear from anyone interested in this topic, including Barbara Miller.
I will show two examples of these:
The one showing just had some lightening done to the original.
  Posted: 03/25/2022 17:29:35
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Mike Fernandez   Mike Fernandez
I am very pleased to see this thread.
"Creative" it is very undefined as I see it.
We use to have a competition called 'Altered Reality' then it was renamed "Creative Artistry".
My aim when when I submit the sand castle, was to create an interesting image that did not look artificial or Altered reality. I guess I did succeed.
The original was a sand castle in the beach with 2 people in the distance and quite boring. I did add clouds, took out one person, add a bird in flight and enhance the lighting, even clean the sand. In the submission I did add the original used.
Correct, I could submit this image in a regular open color competition. Not so sure, if it will pass pure non composite regulations. See the attached image. 1 the sand castle almost real. 'Flower Display' It is definite creative. 'I purr' That is altered reality. and 'Help' Had nothing done to it, but it was creatively created and staged. By observing these images, Which one/s belongs in this group?   Posted: 03/25/2022 18:48:56
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Skip Kremer   Skip Kremer
The question of whether an image that looks "realistic" can be considered "creative" is not an easy one to answer. That is because the boundary between these two terms can not be clearly defined. Our understanding of each of them depends on our personal sensibilities. I spent over ten years researching the history of a movement in painting called Magic Realism and wrote "The Essence of Magic Realism", an essay about the movement now on the web. In many cases the artist would include carefully disguised symbolism to hide messages to their followers. But often there was a certain mood that pervaded a work that otherwise was painted in a "realistic" style. These types of painting find themselves in a limbo, somewhere between Realism and Surrealism. You will find photographs by Gregory Crewdson or Tom Chambers to be done in a realistic style, but both work with Magic Realism. Both are creative photographers. To me it is a mistake to try and codify what the term "creative" means. It is difficult to know what's inside the maker head or heart. It is easier to ask whether a photograph possesses originality, which is something more than tweaking it with a filter or "look".
Mike, the sand castle image is close to the Magic Realism of Crewdson and Chambers. It has a bit of mystery typical of MR images. I consider this image "artistic" and IMO it does not belong in a "pictorial" competition. The flower picture and the I Purr image to me are types of Digital Art. Yes, they are creative. However, I Purr belongs to Surrealism, which may have left the realm of photography.

(note: Magic Realism in art is different from the movement in literature.)   Posted: 03/25/2022 21:55:44
Mike Fernandez   Mike Fernandez
Creative photography goes way back, back.... 1850?
Discoveries like the wet collodion process, which allowed photographers to combine multiple images on one negative, captivated the curiosity and creativity of photographers dating back to the 1850s.
Ref: https://www.creativelive.com/blog/tbt-photo-manipulation-before-photoshop/
Also for a bit of history:
https://www.creativedisplaysnow.com/articles/displaying-creativity-the-history-of-photography/
and
https://mymodernmet.com/first-photograph-photography-history/   Posted: 03/26/2022 08:58:34
Lance Lewin   Lance Lewin
PSA Creative Group Description: Quote

“This section is not for beginners but is for those whose images are dedicated to altered reality and who have longtime experience in Adobe Photoshop. In other words, this category is designed for the cr©me de la cr©me of digital imaging. These members are committed to altering the image so that it departs from the reality of the original photograph. A camera or other light gathering device could never solely capture such images as they appear in the altered image”.

This very description says what the “Creative” DD groups are: it seems rather conflicting how you are trying to “define” what it is, where it is already spelled out by the PSA: on another note, anyone (in or outside of the PSA) I know who sees or hears the word “creative” in the same sentence as photography, understands the likelihood extreme manipulation is at the heart of the creative process: that techniques, some that may be determined outside “classic” era manipulation are being used, (e.g., composite, sky-replacement, and the ever popular multi-image merging which can sometimes leave the finished piece looking less than comfortable).

In my opinion, should this topic (in this or any “creative” group) be more about how to properly “identify” creative work, and especially, and for this particular conversation, as it relates to how the PSA defines for DD-group interaction, and the details outlined in PSA competition rules?

For instance, if a “creative” piece looks authentic, like for example, the "Sandcastle" by Mike, then perhaps it’s a good time to discuss how he (or anyone making images like this) “present” their work. In fact, if he wanted, Mike can enter this work in a regular “traditional” photography color category and no one would know...is that fair? This conversation is actually central to my current philosophical studies and the essay I am writing. I appreciate the time to discuss with you.

A very deep and complex discourse, indeed. Thank you.

Lance A. Lewin
PSA Black and White Photography Mentor
PSA South Atlantic Area Membership Director
  Posted: 03/27/2022 14:29:41
Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
My rationale in photography, whether creating images for my own pleasure or to enter into competitions, or whether for judging, has always been 'An image is an image is an image'. The process necessary to achieve the end result is almost irrelevant. As a Brit from the other side of the pond, I would question the PSA Creative Group description that 'This section is not for beginners but is for those who's images are dedicated to altered reality and who have long-time experience in Adobe Photoshop.' I often find that childrens' images are so creative and have been produced with an innocence that is unrestrained and quite refreshing. Also, how often do we find in camera clubs that the Beginners produced better work than the Advanced workers? I agree with lance that the common preconception about 'creative' is to automatically link it to the use of digital imaging techniques; indeed fiddling-and-diddling in the computer. I believe there is a very real danger that we can over-think the notion of 'creative'. After all, photography is all about painting with light and using that to find a means of expression. Perhaps there is scope here for simply going with the flow. We are all individuals with different life experiences and aspirations. Perhaps we should simply believe that there is no right or wrong way in photography; it is all right and anything goes.   Posted: 04/01/2022 06:38:11
Peter Newman   Peter Newman
Brian, I agree with your rationale, however I am not clear on what you mean by "anything goes." Am I correct in assuming that you meant, that in accordance with the PSA definition the image must originate with a photograph?   Posted: 04/03/2022 19:44:44
Peter Newman   Peter Newman
Lance, Why would it not be fair. I remember the days when we would: hand paint monochrome images; use pin registration to make composites and posterizations; put needle holes in slides to put a light spot in an eye; trace an image with a brush on a Vaseline coated glass plate to emulate painting etc. All image alteration techniques were OK.   Posted: 04/03/2022 20:00:23
Lance Lewin   Lance Lewin
Skip, everyone...I feel all the terms being discussed are semantic: once we "create", (and within the photography genre of art) includes every type of sub-genre that was just narrated in the above post.

This said, we still see the PSA include separate DD-groups for, "creative" and "Composite": both Creative Entities within photography, but separated by a group fence, as it were. In this (PSA created) context, if the artist-photographer mostly creates through composite-techniques, and wants to learn or share skillsets with others, then it is most appropriate for the separate Room, just like Underwater Photography could be a separate room for those who mostly shoot below the surface of Earth. (in fact the PSA ask me to start such a group with my wife).

(To reiterate my comments above this post), it is all about Categorizing the work, and I do mean within an exhibition or competition environment, and consequently, a discourse that embarks on investigating the integrity of the photographer would seem complimentary.

Another item that is "pricking" this group discussion is about "Competition": As it relates to Competition Rules (within the PSA) and some local clubs, see my talk on the subject in DD-83 Mono Bulletin Board (scroll to 8/22/21) for some insight. I look forward to seeing your feedback.

Lance A. Lewin   Posted: 03/30/2022 05:37:40
Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
The notion of whether an image is creative is surely in the mind's eye of the photographer and in the visual story that is being conveyed to the viewer. You could argue that all photography is creative as it represents an interpretation or perception of reality as viewed by the artist, in this case the photographer. Interestingly, some International Salons have found this subject difficult to deal with and have used the label 'Open Traditional Colour' or 'Open Traditional Monochrome'. I find myself asking what exactly does 'Traditional' mean? Is it something that is reality or something that is not creative which in turn begs the question 'What does creative mean?' and so we get on that circular discussion which leads nowhere.   Posted: 04/01/2022 06:14:55
Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
I agree with Mike that the sandcastle image could be entered in a Creative competition (where I suspect it would not do too well) and/or entered in a pictorial Open Colour or Open Monochrome Competition, having firstly adjusted the exposure, where it would do much better.   Posted: 04/01/2022 06:02:22
Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
If you scroll down to the bottom of the comments in this Bulletin Board, you will see that we started the whole process off when the Bulletin Board was introduced with a thread entitled 'Definition of Creative' the content of which is apposite to this thread. I would reiterate my earlier comment that 'Creative' means different things to different people. All photography is 'Creative' whether it is in the 'Seeing Eye' of the photographer at the taking stage or in digital manipulation post-event in the computer. Interestingly, I have been on the organising committee for the Cheltenham International Salon of Photography since its inception in 2013. Over the years, we have had a Section that has variously been called Creative, Experimental, Altered Reality and now we have gone full circle and are back to Creative.   Posted: 03/31/2022 11:25:23
Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
There is an argument here to say that the sandcastle image is indeed creative in the sense that the author has seen the potential of the side-lighting on the sandcastle and deliberately under-exposed the image and added/removed one man in the background to enhance the overall aesthetic. So in that sense, it is creative. From a pictorial point of view, I would remove the figure in the background, correct the under-exposure and probably change the image to monochrome.   Posted: 04/01/2022 05:57:39
Skip Kremer   Skip Kremer
Hi Brian. I think all photographic organizations struggle in trying to classify images. My experience is that in many camera clubs over 50% of the memberships process their images in Lightroom and never use Photoshop. Clearly Adobe has made it much easier by improving the tools in Lightroom, but my point is that most of these members want their images to look "natural". If I send one of my "creative" images to a friend, for instance, she will respond "nice, but not my cup of tea". Many photographers like her try to "make" their images "in camera", so they can do as little processing as possible. Very commendable. Next, some photographers process most of their images as monochromes. If someone follows the traditions of monochromic photography, I would definitely say that that person is "creative", but in a special class. Next there is a small group who manipulate their images, using Photoshop and other software, in order to craft them according to a certain vision. But usually it is a vision that intersects with the real world. A good example in paintings is "The Persistence of Memory" by Salvador Dali. Dali lived in Catalonia at the time, and would wonder on the beaches near where he lived. He had taken a break to eat lunch and noticed how the cheese had melted on a plate in the summer heat. The painting is still a source of speculation almost 100 years later. After it was painted Dali embellished its meaning by saying "nothing more than the soft, extravagant, solitary, paranoiac-critical Camembert cheese of space and time... Hard or soft, what difference does it make! As long as they tell time accurately." But the creative process was the observation of melted cheese during a lunch break. IMHO, this is how the creative process works. It is full of accidental observations and serendipity, combined with technical craftmanship. It is the result of a vision that is always in flux, interacting with memories and events happening all around us.   Posted: 04/01/2022 21:23:03
Skip Kremer   Skip Kremer
With deference to Mike's vision, another interpretation might be to remove the bird, enlarge the man slightly and move him a bit, and then add some lightning in the distant clouds. I very much like the layered treatment in the image, with the sun on the sand castle, and the muted soft colors and details of the clouds. The key, IMHO, is to balance the relationship of the man with the sand castle and the clouds, as he is the key to the story. This image has so much potential! It brings to mind one of the images in "Cape Light" by Meyerowitz.   Posted: 04/01/2022 21:36:11
Skip Kremer   Skip Kremer
With deference to Mike's vision, another interpretation might be to remove the bird, enlarge the man slightly and move him a bit, and then add some lightning in the distant clouds. I very much like the layered treatment in the image, with the sun on the sand castle, and the muted soft colors and details of the clouds. The key, IMHO, is to balance the relationship of the man with the sand castle and the clouds, as he is the key to the story. This image has so much potential! It brings to mind the lightning strike in one of the images of "Cape Light" by Joel Meyerowitz.   Posted: 04/01/2022 22:01:31
Skip Kremer   Skip Kremer
With deference to Mike's vision, another interpretation might be to remove the bird, enlarge the man slightly and move him a bit, and then add some lightning in the distant clouds. I very much like the layered treatment in the image, with the sun on the sand castle, and the muted soft colors and details of the clouds. The key, IMHO, is to balance the relationship of the man with the sand castle and the clouds, as he is the key to the story. This image has so much potential! It brings to mind the lightning strike in one of the images of "Cape Light" by Joel Meyerowitz.   Posted: 04/01/2022 22:01:33

Thread Title: What do we Consider to constitute a Creative Image to submit to DD Creative groups

Joan Field   Joan Field
This question arose in our group, #21. We had two submissions this month that were reallyy not creative as an end product, although creative techniques had bee used to enhance them. The question is: Are these images considered to be Creative for the purposes of submission to a DD creative group.: I would like to hear from anyone interested, also Barbara Miller on this one.   Posted: 03/25/2022 17:27:51
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Steve Wessing   Steve Wessing
Here you go. This version definitely conforms to the 'unreal' rule. But is it better? Is it more creative? I don't think so. The image I submitted is significantly different from the original. Elements can be seen that were not previously seen in the image as shot. Detail. Contrast. Movement. Creativity is not simply putting one image into another, or creating the impossible. Sometimes the impossible is not aesthetically pleasing. IMO, creativity is in the process of transformation, not the subject.   Posted: 03/25/2022 20:12:05
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Mike Fernandez   Mike Fernandez
Very true...I on the other hand I would have taken a different approach. Would it be better, Could score higher in a competition? ??????/   Posted: 03/26/2022 10:09:35
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Mike Fernandez   Mike Fernandez
So to go forward, "Creative in this group" should be considered an image that has to show alteration to an original or a total new conception.
Images either from camera images or computer generated, will qualify.
It should not look natural, no matter how many pictures it took to construct or how many changes made to a single image.
Cases like the two images submitted in March are samples of that situation.
Am I correct? I see nothing wrong with the definition for submission in this group as stated.
So far I am having a great time and learning quite a bit.   Posted: 04/01/2022 08:30:12

Thread Title: Easier to enforce copyright protection

Peter Newman   Peter Newman
New U.S. law makes it easier to collect for copyright violations, and also makes it clear that registration is not required, (but you recover less if you don't.

CAUTION: THE INFORMATION BELOW IS NOT INTENDED TO BE LEGAL ADVICE. DO NOT ACT ON IT WITHOUT CONSULTING YOUR LEGAL ADVISOR:

From PPA

A victory for photographers and other creatives is being celebrated today, one day after President Trump signed into law a bill that includes the Copyright Alternative in Small Claims Enforcement Act (the CASE Act). Simply put, as the CASE Act becomes law, it can now provide an avenue for photographers and other copyright owners to pursue infringers in small claims court instead of federal court, which has not been a viable option for many independent artists in the past. (The small claims system is designed to allow photographers to have an alternative to hiring expensive copyright lawyers who often prefer to take on cases with larger payouts.)
Take Note Photographers: 5 Common Legal Issues to Comprehend.

The signing into law of the CASE Act on December 27, 2020 also marks the end of a 14-year push to create a small claims process that makes it easier for photographers and other creatives to protect their work against copyright infringement. The Act was part of a massive Omnibus bill that includes more than $900 billion in Coronavirus relief and stimulus spending, in addition to another $1.4 trillion to run the government through next September.

Copyright Alliance CEO Keith Kupferschmid released the following statement last week after Congress passed the CASE Act but before it had been signed into law yesterday by President Trump:

"The CASE Act has been a critical legislative priority for hundreds of thousands of photographers, illustrators, graphic artists, songwriters, authors, bloggers, YouTubers and many other creators and small businesses across the country. For far too long, these individual creators have had rights but no means of enforcing them due to the expense and complexity of federal court. With today’s passage of the CASE Act, creators will have a voluntary, inexpensive and streamlined alternative ”a small claims tribunal that will be housed within the U.S. Copyright Office”enabling them to defend their copyrighted works from infringement."

[Read: 5 Simple Ways to Lock Down and Protect Your Photography Brand]

<https://www.rangefinderonline.com/articles/5-simple-ways-to-lock-down-and-protect-your-photography-brand/?utm_source=article&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=bottom>
1
Here's the abridged version of how the system will work for photographers: Rather than file a federal lawsuit, photographers will be able to bring their infringement claims before a Copyright Claims Board within the U.S. Copyright Office”a three-member panel of experts in copyright law. This panel would be able to award photographers up to $15,000 per work and $30,000 per claim, assuming the works are registered with the office. For unregistered photos, photographers would only be eligible for $7,500 per work and $15,000 per claim. In addition to monetary penalties, the board could also simply send the infringer a notice to cease the infringement.

The nonprofit association Professional Photographers of America (PPA) has been working with Congress for years to pass this important piece of legislation. During that time, PPA members wrote thousands of letters and made phone calls to their representatives asking for support. “It is exciting to see what our organization and its members can do when we set our mind to something,” said PPA president Gregory Daniel in a statement posted earlier today.   Posted: 01/08/2021 16:47:23
Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
Peter, I now know why I chose not to pursue a career in Law ...   Posted: 03/29/2021 02:19:07
Peter Newman   Peter Newman
For the same reason I retired from that career.   Posted: 03/29/2021 18:04:00

Thread Title: Stimulate Creative Juices

Peter Newman   Peter Newman
Recently I had a creative block. I ran out of ideas. I thumbed, virtually, through my list of workshops and webinars I had attended, whose work I admired. From my "A" list: John Paul Caponigro. I spent a lot of hours brwsing his galleries of Studies, and related works. It started my juices. I am positive that most, possibly all, here will enjoy looking at his work, even if you are not having a block.

<https://www.johnpaulcaponigro.art/images/works/>   Posted: 01/05/2021 11:20:02
Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
Peter, John Paul Caponigro is one of my favourite and most inspiring photographers. His images are fabulous and certainly stretch the visual boundaries. What a fertile mind he has and such a creative imagination.   Posted: 03/29/2021 02:17:47

Thread Title: Judging of Creative Images

Peter Newman   Peter Newman
Brian, I saw your comment of Steve Wessing's image this month. And I completely agree. I just wish there was a way of convincing other judges that a pure abstract image should not /or need not, be an image that is a uniformly recognizable object. At my CC's last competition three abstract images were entered. (One of which was mine.) In all three instances the judge stated: "I don't know what that is," and gave a very low score. I told one of the other makers. who was upset about her score, that is the judges weakness, not your image. This is the same judge who had earlier stated that he judges images based upon how he thinks others might perceive the image he is looking at.   Posted: 10/25/2020 10:26:43
Steve Wessing   Steve Wessing
Peter, the judge you describe is using subjective criteria to judge work that should clearly be judged objectively. They should be challenged/educated/replaced.   Posted: 10/25/2020 10:39:30
Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
Steve, I agree totally with your comment.   Posted: 10/25/2020 14:34:02
Peter Newman   Peter Newman
In my younger days I had little hesitation about challenging judges. This particular judge refuses to be educated, he is too set in his ways. He, like too many other judges, have difficulty understanding, that all images need not be a container for a subject. The subject is the image.   Posted: 10/26/2020 16:23:38
Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
Peter, I get really frustrated with judges who are so rigid in the way they interpret images. Human nature being what it is, I am afraid we are always going to have variation in the quality of judges. There are some who are excellent but there are others who are less so. The judge you quote who judges images based upon how he thinks others might perceive the image he is looking at, needs to seriously question his modus operandi and perhaps needs to attend a judges’ seminar to learn the basics. That is inexcusable and as we say on this side of the pond “He needs a damn good thrashing!” Whenever I am asked to judge images at camera club competitions, my strategy is to use the range 15-20 marks. This avoids anyone being really disappointed about his/her score as my ‘low score’ is 15 marks. Several years ago, I entered an image into a local camera club’s monthly competition. The judge commented “I don’t know what this is ... Next!” A few months later I entered a different image into a competition at another local camera club I belong to. A different judge made almost an identical comment. If I had been a new member to both camera clubs, I would probably have walked with my feet. We all know when an image is not quite up to the mark and in these cases, it is incumbent on judges to deliver their critique in a positive, encouraging way. In fairness, the two images I entered were drawn from a project I had done for my MA Photography Degree and were entered to put the judge in an uncomfortable place and to stretch their ability to understand what was placed before them.   Posted: 10/25/2020 14:32:27
Peter Newman   Peter Newman
Brian, I am going to paraphrase the Judges comments on two of my images, which were entered in our last CC's competition: Beautiful and interesting image, perfect lighting, good conversion. However since it's a picture of someone else's work taken at a museum, he scored them 7. (Our club uses a 6-9 scoring method.) I sent the judge an Email thanking him for saying that my work was museum quality. (I don't think either one is.) I am attaching one of them, which ws posted lst month in DDG 65.   Posted: 12/10/2020 15:34:53
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Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
Peter, "What do judges know?" is a question I often ask myself. Regarding your image, I like the stylized Black & White treatment of the artichoke in the style of Edward Weston. It reminds me of an anatomical dissection for the education and training of medics, although in this case botanists. When I did my MA in Photography, I used among many others, Weston’s image Pepper No. 30 in one of my projects. I just loved the human resonance that it exuded. There were a good range of comments on your image in Study Group 65. I had not realized that not only were you an accomplished photographer but also an accomplished chef. I am salivating at the thought of balsamic vinegar and garlic butter. Isn’t it just great when you can eat your photographic subjects afterwards?   Posted: 12/20/2020 05:52:18
Peter Newman   Peter Newman
I did not obey my mother when she told me not to play with my food.
Happy and healthy New Year, to all.


  Posted: 12/31/2020 19:01:53
Peter Newman   Peter Newman
In my next month's CC competition I am submitting an image of a pepper on a black mirror. In a pre-competition critique, some of the members suggested that I rotate the image 90 degrees, because as presented it was too risquè.   Posted: 03/28/2021 18:14:09
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Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
Peter, Your image of the pepper on the black mirror being considered too risque, reminds me of Edward Weston's image entitled 'Pepper No. 38' which also has human resonance.   Posted: 03/29/2021 02:05:28
Peter Newman   Peter Newman
Brian, as does Pepper 14, and several others. It's all in the maker's creativity and use of lighting.
lighting,   Posted: 03/29/2021 18:02:18
Mike Fernandez   Mike Fernandez
I just saw this thread: I know is old but....
"JUDGING" Ah!!!! my favorite subject for the past 3 months.
All what you guys are saying, is so true! so true....
Judges education or re-education is something I am contemplating.
I would call it "Re-Enlightenment".
We need A Don Quijote to rescue Dulcinea.
But not from wind mills from Holand/Spain, but wind turbines in USA.
Hey we are in 2022.
I know is an 'straight up' quest.
In the coming weeks I will let you know about a plan.
Hope you guys will be interested.   Posted: 02/07/2022 16:47:08
Peter Newman   Peter Newman
Mike, I am looking forward to your plan. My plan is to present what I like for CC competitions. For me photography is simply a hobby. I use it simply to express myself. In the study groups, I like comments and ideas for improvement. When I comment on an image, whether or not I like the genre is immaterial. I try to limit my comments to how I think the maker can improve his use of that image, not change the genre.   Posted: 03/28/2022 16:00:15

Thread Title: ROPA Distinctions

Charles Ayars   Charles Ayars
I have a question about ROPA distinction. I applied recently for QPSA and did not qualify. Each of you are more familiar than I with PSA so I was wondering if you had any suggestions on what it takes to qualify. One of my problems was that several of my pictures did not meet the theme I chose.   Posted: 08/22/2020 19:39:38
Barbara E Miller   Barbara E Miller
write to Jan Lee ropa-director@psa-photo.org I am sure she will give yu the answer   Posted: 08/23/2020 09:55:10
Andrew Hersom   Andrew Hersom
Charles, I have sent you some suggestions about progressing with ROPA via your website email. Andrew (Group 18 & 40)   Posted: 08/28/2020 08:45:10

Thread Title: Wabi Sabi

Peter Newman   Peter Newman
The curiosity in me forces me to look at new, (to me,) concepts:

Not long ago, I watched a PSA webinar: Wabi Sabi with Lisa Cuchara. A quote from Lisa's precis on the webinar, "Wabi-Sabi teaches us to find beauty in everyday life. It is a kind of anti-aesthetic, an alternative to the dominating discriminatory ideas we hold about beauty."

After I started researching the subject, I concluded that the concept might well be included as part of making creative images. I am posting a link to a starting point, for those who may be interested in including the concept in their work. https://www.hikarui.com/journal/a-beginners-guide-to-wabi-sabi   Posted: 07/26/2020 17:57:37
Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
Peter, Thank you for the link to Hikarui which makes very interesting reading. The Japanese concepts of Wabi-Sabi, Hygge, Kintsugi and the like are very thought-provoking and the images are very creative. I like the Japanese perception of beauty and art through wabishisa (lonely, forlorn, desolate, symbolising the inner side of something) and sabishisa (sadness) as the way of appreciating the transient beauty of things imperfect, impermanent and incomplete in the physical world.   Posted: 08/23/2020 11:05:30
Peter Newman   Peter Newman
I have almost finished reading "The White Book" by Han Kang. In the book she verbalizes the impermanence of life. e.g. She has a passage in which she analogizes life to waves crashing on a beach. She includes images that illustrate her philosophy. I think that her book describes the concept in a manner that amplifies my understanding and stimulates my creativity.   Posted: 10/02/2020 10:25:47
Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
Peter, Han Kang sounds very perceptive in her views of the world in general and life in particular. I like her use of metaphor to allow the viewer to draw on their own life experiences to come to an understanding.   Posted: 10/06/2020 06:57:39
Peter Newman   Peter Newman
I am not sure that one can have a real understanding, without relating to their own life experiences.
  Posted: 10/06/2020 13:35:43

Thread Title: Smartphone 3D App

Phillipa Frederiksen   Phillipa Frederiksen
I have used a 3D app on my iPhone. It creates shapes from your image and reflects the image in the shape. I will see if I can find an image that is less than 1 mb.   Posted: 06/19/2020 17:48:26
Peter Newman   Peter Newman
What is it called?
  Posted: 06/19/2020 19:10:34
Peter Newman   Peter Newman
I am replying to myself. Adobe CC has a product called "Fuse."
They claim it will turn a 2D photo into a 3D object.

It is still in beta, Adventurous souls may want to try it.   Posted: 06/19/2020 20:05:43
Phillipa Frederiksen   Phillipa Frederiksen
Interesting! My video has been taken down. Will send a straight photo tomorrow... will look up the 2 Apps in a minute.   Posted: 06/20/2020 03:29:01
Phillipa Frederiksen   Phillipa Frederiksen
This was done in the App. “Matter” on an iPhone   Posted: 06/20/2020 04:36:54
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Peter Newman   Peter Newman
Phillipa, I like the way the curves and colors compliment and support each other. The straight bar in the center visually holds it all together.

Unfortunately for me, that app will not work on a PC. Since I got hit by one of Murphy's laws, I need a new laptop and Wacom tablet. Because of the variety of apps such as Matter, and lack of real need for a notebook, I may decide on an iPad instead of the notebook. But I will not purchase either, until I can play with the iPad.   Posted: 06/20/2020 15:16:24
Phillipa Frederiksen   Phillipa Frederiksen
Good Idea! Also, If you get an iPad you can get the Apps iColorama and Superimpose ....which open up a totally new world!   Posted: 06/20/2020 18:27:21
Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
Phillipa, This is a fabulous image which I like very much. It is creative, futuristic and promotes the idea of projection of ideas into and within the environment.   Posted: 06/23/2020 13:24:46
Tom Pickering   Tom Pickering
Videos don't play on DD. If you want to show a video, please post to YouTube, Vimeo, etc. and post a link for others to see it.   Posted: 06/23/2020 12:12:20
Phillipa Frederiksen   Phillipa Frederiksen
Thanks Tom!   Posted: 06/24/2020 01:00:32
Phillipa Frederiksen   Phillipa Frederiksen
https://vimeo.com/432046375
Hopefully you can click on this link and see the 3D image moving.
the Moving part is done in another App called Plotaverse   Posted: 06/24/2020 01:08:43
Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
Phillipa, Thank you for the link to Vimeo. The clip is very powerful and has captured my imagination. Well done.   Posted: 06/26/2020 13:18:23

Thread Title: Creative Cloud Updates

Peter Newman   Peter Newman
Creative Cloud juat came out with a major update to LR & ACR. Adobe claims that we will have more features such as better: color control; sharpening control; and noise reduction. I am going to have to wait before commenting on the usefullness or value of these changes, as they are just being installed and I want to do some reading and testing first.   Posted: 06/16/2020 20:55:44

Thread Title: Daz Studio

Charles Ayars   Charles Ayars
Brian and all, I have been experimenting with a program called Daz Studio in which you can put together 3D character. I've attached one of them that I worked on so you can see what I mean. I raise this in light of the comments from last month on using stock photos. These 3D characters are obviously still not photos that I took but it is a photographic character that I created. I like to include people in my creative photographic pieces but have no library of people since I have avoided taking pictures of people in the past. What do you think about using these photographic characters in our photographic art? Look forward to hearing your comments.   Posted: 06/08/2020 21:20:50
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Peter Newman   Peter Newman
I would think that using them in any category, especially creative groups is great, depending on how you use them. I envision more opportunities for creatively, than people. While I freely admit to not being a walking factoid database I have never heard of an animation complaining about the photographer moving her head 2" to the left.

As to using people, I simply do not show enough for the person to be easily recognizable. I don't normally shoot people, but I could not resist this guy

Ex 1   Posted: 06/09/2020 18:28:27
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Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
Peter, The chap you photographed certainly has a magnetism all of his own! I find that anonymity can be a powerful tool in photography as sometimes not only do we want to produce a visual story and to get a message over but also we want to protect the identity of the subject.   Posted: 06/19/2020 04:51:28
Steve Wessing   Steve Wessing
When a subject (like this one) goes out of their way to be noticeable and photogenic, I assume they are willing to be photographed. Especially in a public space.   Posted: 06/19/2020 12:06:35
Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
Steve, He certainly is a chap who would stand out in any crowd. I am wondering what he is carrying in his right hand?   Posted: 06/19/2020 12:28:42
Steve Wessing   Steve Wessing
If you look closely, his left hand also holds a purple handle like object. Perhaps weights, for much needed cardio?   Posted: 06/19/2020 13:47:42
Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
Steve, Good spot. I hadn't noticed the same object in his left hand until I enlarged the image. You hit the nail on the head with your reference to cardio.   Posted: 06/19/2020 13:58:22
Peter Newman   Peter Newman
Steve, I am not sure I agree that he doesn't care if he is photographed. I don't think that willingness to be seen in public is the same as not caring if he is photographed. I don't know if just walking in his home would give him sufficient incentive to keep on with his exercise. There is a difference between "GQ Centerfold," and "Privacy Please," as shown below:   Posted: 06/20/2020 16:09:36
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Peter Newman   Peter Newman
Ex 2.   Posted: 06/09/2020 18:29:31
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Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
Peter, I like the idea of getting yourself in the picture through a reflection which adds to the overall visual story.   Posted: 06/19/2020 04:56:55
Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
Charles, I haven't come across Daz Studio before but it sounds like a fun application. Your example illustrates perfectly the 3D nature of the software. I think it is important that we all develop our photography to suit our own interests and tastes. Of course, how we enter the resulting work will depend upon the rules and regulations of the competition we are entering. Whither stock photos! It is interesting that my father took very few portrait pictures and I have inherited that trait.   Posted: 06/19/2020 04:41:30

Thread Title: Definition of Creative

Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
To start the ball rolling, I would suggest that 'Creative' means different things to different people. All photography is 'Creative' whether it is in the 'Seeing Eye' of the photographer at the taking stage or in digital manipulation post-event in the computer. As an example, whenever I am judging, I look for three things in an image. Firstly, I look for technical competence; and we all know what that means. Secondly, I look for artistic merit; that is not so easy to quantify and rationalize in the mind's eye. Thirdly, and most importantly for me, I look for something of the photographer (not literally) in the picture. This is where the creativity comes in. I ask myself whether the photographer's creativity has produced a visual story that transcends a mere record to the point where it engages with me through feeling, mood and emotion.   Posted: 05/22/2020 05:14:33
Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
In my discussions with Jeri Conklin in Study Group 15, she refers to Scott Jacobs, an artist who paints photo-realism where he embraces freedom, individualism and rebellion. Perhaps this is creativity by another name and highlights the value of thinking outside the box.

  Posted: 05/22/2020 05:58:03
Phillipa Frederiksen   Phillipa Frederiksen
Hi Brian,
I am also a judge and when I judge creative images I throw out all the other judging criteria and look and think about the overall impression, the mood, etc.
the impact may be striking or so subtle that you need to look at it more carefully.
I TRY to keep an open mind .... perhaps I can see hat the author is trying to see....perhaps I can't... so mood can be an important ingredient!   Posted: 06/09/2020 19:13:42
Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
Phillipa, Delighted to read that when you are judging you keep an open mind and try to get into the author's head to see what they, and their image, is all about. It is a pity that quite often some judges have their own criteria and it can cloud their judgement.   Posted: 06/19/2020 04:00:01
Steve Wessing   Steve Wessing
[two cents]
'Creative' is just about the broadest possible description for a category. A creative image could be as subtle as the mists, or as bold as exploding dynamite. It includes everything from the surreal to the hyper real. It may be anything from a photo that is altered to appear real, to an unaltered photo that seems impossible. It may include familiar images and icons, or be completely abstract.
When judging creative images, please remember you are judging the creativity of the image and the technique, not necessarily the elements of the composition.
If I take a photograph of a famous image, that photograph is my work. Not the original, but my photo of the original may indeed be creative. Just as taking a photo of a building does not make me the architect, yet my photo of that building may or may not be judged to be a creative one.
[/two cents]   Posted: 06/11/2020 14:21:48
Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
Steve, It is quite refreshing that you are coming from a broad canvas and that you see the 'Creative' spectrum as an all-embracing church. I agree that when taking a picture of someone else's artwork, it is important to add something of yourself to make it creative to you. Otherwise it is merely plagiarism. I love your analogy of 'Subtle as the mists'.   Posted: 06/19/2020 04:20:54
Steve Wessing   Steve Wessing
Part of my creative exercise includes tributes to the creativity of others. This linked example contains no photographic elements, but the collage, animation and background are my work. The original images are from comic books by Robert Crumb. I always try to maintain the integrity of the original work while expanding on it and creating something completely new from it. I posted the link because it isn't photographic, and it's much too big to post here.

http://gph.is/1B6i7oo   Posted: 06/23/2020 16:19:03
Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
Steve, Thank you for the link to GIPHY. I can certainly see something of your style in the creations.   Posted: 06/26/2020 13:13:38
Steve Wessing   Steve Wessing
Part of my creative exercise includes tributes to the creativity of others. This linked example contains no photographic elements, but the collage, animation and background are my work. The original images are from comic books by Robert Crumb. I always try to maintain the integrity of the original work while expanding on it and creating something completely new from it. I posted the link because it isn't photographic, and it's much too big to post here.

http://gph.is/1B6i7oo   Posted: 06/24/2020 09:48:29
Brian Swinyard   Brian Swinyard
Steve, Thank you for the link to GIPHY. I can certainly see something of your style in the creations.   Posted: 06/26/2020 13:14:21

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