Group 80 Bulletin Board


6 threads - 35 total comments

This page is dedicated to discussions about our theme (Street Scenes) that are outside the scope of our monthly images.



Thread Title: Must People be Included in Street Scenes?

Victor Dallons   Victor Dallons
Mo Connelly posed a question: " There is a fairly regular debate about whether street photography must include people. I am one of those who believe that we must be strict about what we can do with our images once we call them street but that people are not always necessary. I look forward to your thoughts not only on my image but on my contention!"

My Thoughts: Street Images In its widest definition, a street image is any image taken from a street, road, or other public place in an urban setting. This definition includes urban landscapes, architecture, street art, cars, animals, plants, as well a people. What is not considered street photography in this wide definition is posed people, models, or staged situations. With those few restrictions, it is your own preferences as to what you consider to be street images.

Acceptance of an image as street photography by a viewer is another matter entirely. I think you will find a broad spectrum of opinion on what street photography is, some of fairly accepting and some adamantly restrictive. With regards to this PSA PID Digital Dialogue group, defines street photography, it is “any image that can be a type of photojournalism: people caught in action, unusual street signs, etc.” This definition is fairly wide open.

As far as my personal preference is concerned, a good photograph is one that attracts my attention and keeps it for a while, regardless of it’s genre. If you want to consider it a street image, then so be it. How you categorize an image is not going to make me change what I want to photograph though it might influence me on what I bring to this or other groups. Its acceptance in the groups will depend on the attitudes of the people within the group.

Many people consider street photography to be at its best when it captures spontaneous, human moments that reflect on the human condition and character, through people’s body posture, facial expressions and interactions. This is where hardcore Street Photographers would exclude landscapes, cityscapes, architectural, still life, nature, street art, and even animal photography in an urban setting. However, there are many wonderful examples of street photography that do not include humans.

My preference is to have people in my images. The images are about the human condition, people’s character, and what they say about what is going on around me. All but 2 of the images I have submitted to this group were taken on walks within 15 blocks from home, though I expect to range further when the pandemic subsides.

Since I present my images in groups that are not exclusively street photography, I do not worry about following any specific rules about how much I can alter an image. If I present an image as “Street Photography,” then I do restrict myself on adding and changing elements, though I generally avoid that in most of my photography. I will definitely do all the stuff one would do in a wet process such as the modern equivalents dodge and burn and contrast manipulation. `

Taking pictures of street art for me is akin to taking pictures of statues or sculptures. It is someone else’s art, not mine . I do take images that contain street art, but I couple that with people interacting with that art or adding an interpretation to that art. Documenting street art as part of a project does add meaning, showing a mood or condition in a period of history. Pictures of street art included in a travel photography sequence adds perspective and character to that location. Street photography is one component of travel photograph, and in that aspect, pictures of street art fits clearly in that genre, but as a stand alone image, perhaps open to interpretation of whether it is appropriation or not.   Posted: 06/03/2021 13:43:25
Ed Tepper   Ed Tepper
Well, Victor, you certainly covered a lot of topics and I don't think I can respond to all of them in one sitting. I don't agree that street photography is restricted to urban settings. There are many suburban, rural, desert, seaside, mountainous, etc. settings where street photos can be created.

I think it's very hard to define "Street Photography" especially considering that the one thing that is not needed is a street. Gary Winogrand thought the term is absurd. Are people required? I just perused through a few of the books I have by noted street photographers. One of the opening photos in Phil Penman's book "Street" includes a street, a street sign on a pole and two empty chairs. No people. There are several photos with no people included in the book "Magnum Streetwise", which is a compendium of street photos by Magnum photographers.

The Facebook group that I'm an admin in requires that there be people in the photo or the photo is rejected. I belong to other groups where not having people in the photo is acceptable. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Regarding photoing someone else's art, e.g. a statue or wall art, unless the intension is to document the art, the photo is boring to me. To make it into a street photo, I think there needs to be another element in the photo, a punctum that jumps out to the viewer, grabs and holds their attention.

I need to stop pontificating for now. Let's see what others have to say.

  Posted: 06/03/2021 15:10:23
Ed Tepper   Ed Tepper
I don't remember where I got this but it's interesting:

As street photography is a broad and difficult genre, we use the definition of Street Photography by Larry Fink: "It is a branch of realistic fine-art photography that”traditionally”records un-posed scenes in public places (streets, parks, restaurants, stores, museums, libraries, airports; train, bus, and subway stations, etc.) It began in earnest in the 1920s (though there are earlier examples), when camera and film technology made spontaneous, hand-held photography possible. Not Portraiture The primary subject is people, at rest or in motion, alone or with others, going about the every-day activities of life (walking, sitting, standing, waiting, reading, eating, talking, listening, laughing, daydreaming, greeting, parting, working, playing, shopping, etc.). But it is not portrait photography. The identity of the people in the picture is less important than their value as composition elements or representations of archetypal figures: fathers, mothers, children, lovers, tradesmen, etc. Not Documentary Photography The primary emphasis is on capturing a fleeting composition, a temporary, unrepeatable arrangement of lines, forms, textures, and tones“within a rigid frame. While such photographs often document clothing styles or automobile design, these details are subordinate to the artistic elements; whereas, in strict documentary photography, content is more important than artistry. Not Photojournalism Nor is it pure photojournalism (news photography) because there’s nothing “news-worthy” happening in these pictures, rather the endless repetition of daily activities. On the other hand, street photography at times appears in news publications for its “human interest” value. Consistent with their overwhelming interest in composition, some street photographers“not all”shoot with a black and white final image in mind, eschewing color as a distraction. Some purists not only insist on shooting un-posed scenes, they attempt to compose entirely in-camera, without cropping. Before around 1950, the first-generation masters of the genre tended to take visually balanced pictures with a positive emotional tone, celebrating life and its fleeting nature, seizing and sharing momentary beauty and meaning with the viewer. Other shooters, since around 1950, are more likely to make color images or to shoot with wider-angle lenses from close range, forcing sometimes-disturbing images on the viewer. Balanced compositions are of less interest to some second-generation artists, gaining a certain amount of impact in the trade off. In recent years, some who call their work “street photography” pose models (actors) and direct the action, making multiple takes, much like a filmmaker. Regardless of approach, composition and timing remain the primary challenges of street photography."   Posted: 06/03/2021 16:16:52
Victor Dallons   Victor Dallons
I grant you the "street photography" can go beyond urban, out to sub-urban, sub burbs, small towns, highway crossings, road side attractions, etc, but soon it crosses into pastoral or nature. There is no clear dividing line. Going back to Garry Winogrand: "I see street as more of an attitude and a way of seeing the world rather than a set of conditions that define where or how an image can be taken. It’s about a photographer peering into the chaos of the world and coming back with candid images that reinvent that world and show it in a new way."

I think that your quote of a description of street photography is a good one.   Posted: 06/05/2021 00:18:04
Bill Foy   Bill Foy
Here's what Wikipedia, a site that I take with a grain of salt, has to say about Street Photography, “Street photography is a genre of photography that features subjects in candid situations within public places and does not necessitate the presence of a street or even the urban environment. ‘Street’ simply refers to a place where human activity can be seen, a place to observe and capture social interaction. The subject can even be absent of any people and can be that of object or environment where an object projects a human character or an environment is decidedly human. Framing and timing are key aspects of the craft, with the aim of creating images at a decisive or poignant moment. Alternatively, the street photographer may seek a more prosaic depiction of the scene, as a form of social documentary.”

Personally, I do not think people are necessary, nor is a street. Thinking about the "Four W's", it appears that two are unnecessary parts of Street Photography - "Who" and "Where".   Posted: 06/06/2021 11:47:38
Bill Foy   Bill Foy
Thinking about the question of photographing the art of others, I'd pose this question. Is architecture art? If your answer to this is yes, then that a really big problem for photographers who are in the "don't photograph the art of others" camp. Personally, I've never had an issue of photographing the art of others. Has anyone ever been to Chihuly exhibit and NOT made at least one image?   Posted: 06/06/2021 11:56:29
Bev Caine   Bev Caine
I have often shot other people's are but when submitting to a competition, I usually think twice because I've seen them disqualified more than once.   Posted: 06/06/2021 14:27:59
Bill Foy   Bill Foy
I was looking for an article in an old edition of FujiLove e-zine and came across this definition of Street Photography:
Let’s begin with a question:
“What is street photography?”
Is there a more emotive or
contentious question amongst street
photographers, a question that causes
more argument, division and angst? I
suspect not. Street photography means
different things to different people and
it’s perhaps wrong to enforce ‘labels’
onto our picture taking. Do we really
need a definition? If so, what is it?
Lots of people say that labels are not
important and we don’t need definitions
“ street photography is whatever we
want it to be. And up to a point, I agree
with them. But for people new to street
X100F at f/8, 1/180 sec, ISO 1600
photography, or perhaps those still
finding their feet, some explanation can
be helpful. Baselines need to be
established, parameters set and some
terms of reference provided, all of which
can help people find their way in what
can be a confusing world.
FUJILOVE INSPIRATION | 26
But perhaps we should take a step
back. Rather than thinking in terms of
definitions, should we be looking at
‘approaches’? Whilst there are many
styles and sub-genres of street
photography, I often narrow this down
to three key approaches, based on the
‘moment’, the ‘aesthetic’ or the ‘narrative’.
There is certainly no right or wrong
approach; we must do what works for us
and not be boxed-in to what someone
else thinks we should do. And this is one
of the issues with social media “ as soon
as you say one thing is right, plenty of
people will line-up to tell you you’re
wrong.   Posted: 06/07/2021 14:32:52

Thread Title: December Image Submitted into Competition

Victor Dallons   Victor Dallons
I submitted my December image that I posted to this group into competition at my local photography society meeting. It did very well, earning a score of 26/27 (9 point scale, 3 judges), the second highest score for the evening. Thank you all for your comments on this image, your suggestions contributed to it’s success.   Posted: 01/10/2021 13:12:18
J. Lanning Smith   J. Lanning Smith
That's great Victor. Congratulations! Well done for sure.   Posted: 01/10/2021 13:13:52

Thread Title: Photoshop's Color Picker

Bill Foy   Bill Foy
Does anyone have experience with Photoshop's Color Picker, using the eyedropper to pull a color from an image to be used in a layer?   Posted: 09/10/2020 13:33:29
Victor Dallons   Victor Dallons
Yes. Wht is it that you want to do?   Posted: 09/10/2020 13:39:35
Victor Dallons   Victor Dallons
How to:
Select the paint brush tool.

While holding down the option key on Mac, Alt key on PC, click that spot where you want the color of. This places that color in the "foreground" coler box.

You can now use that color with the paintbrush on a different layer. If you are using that color as a fill, select "Foreground Color" in the Fill dialog box.

  Posted: 09/10/2020 13:49:08
Bill Foy   Bill Foy
Victor, may I email you the image that I'm attempting to alter and explain my purpose? I think that would be easier than trying to imagine it.   Posted: 09/10/2020 13:54:18
Victor Dallons   Victor Dallons
Yes, that would be fine.   Posted: 09/10/2020 17:22:00
Bev Caine   Bev Caine
yes, bill. Just click on the eye dropper and then click on the color you want to "copy" once you do that , the color will replace one of the colors in your tools panel. Then use your paintbrush as you wish.

If you're still having a problem, I'll be home all evening - call me and I'll walk you through it. 561-752-3992   Posted: 09/10/2020 14:08:58
Bill Foy   Bill Foy
This is the image. I'm trying to learning "Clipping Masks". This particular step is to use the eyedropper to select the blue from the image and it should change the 4 red segments to the blue. I've been unable to get the blue selected.   Posted: 09/10/2020 14:23:31
Bill Foy   Bill Foy
Sorry, the file was too large. Here it is.   Posted: 09/10/2020 14:29:20
Comment Image
Bev Caine   Bev Caine
I haven't done that, but my best suggestion is go to Utube and just search for clipping mask in photoshop and you'll get more suggestions than (my typical expression) Carter has peanuts!!   Posted: 09/10/2020 15:10:32
Victor Dallons   Victor Dallons
I see what you mean that it is difficult to select the blue. The brush eye dropper selection area is much to broad to get just the blue.

A work around would be to select the blue area with the marquee tool or lasso tool and make the selection into another layer, then turn off all the other layers so that only the blue spot shows, then select the color with the paint brush.   Posted: 09/10/2020 17:37:14
Tom Pickering   Tom Pickering
This is not a job for the color picker. If you must, then it's important to reduce the eyedropper to a smaller selection area.

Better to the Color Range selection tool which is specifically geared to that job.   Posted: 09/12/2020 13:02:41
Carol Sheppard   Carol Sheppard
Bill, there's an area at the top of your screen that enables you to pick the size of the sample area. Pick a small one if you have to be really specific.   Posted: 01/10/2021 15:25:15

Thread Title: Scanning 1x3 Negatives

Bev Caine   Bev Caine
Does anyone have any suggestions for someone that can scan 1 x 3 negatives?   Posted: 09/03/2020 20:10:28
Keith Parris   Keith Parris
How many negatives do you need scanned?
How often do you need to have negatives scanned?
I have an Epson Perfection V700 Photo scanner that should scan 1 x 3 inch negatives.
However, I am in Texas.   Posted: 09/09/2020 16:24:11
Bev Caine   Bev Caine
About 1/2 dozen. Can I send them to you with a flash drive? I would be happy to pay you. I am in S. Florida.   Posted: 09/09/2020 16:33:03
Bev Caine   Bev Caine
I neglected to say that this is a one time thing. My husband is able to scan the slides and 35 mm negatives but the scanner that I had that scanned larger negatives was not compatible with Windows 10 so we sold it before I found these few. Whatever you can do will be most gratefully appreciated.   Posted: 09/09/2020 21:50:08

Thread Title: 10 Things Not To Do

J. Lanning Smith   J. Lanning Smith
This article came across my screen this morning, and I thought it was a really good article on some do's and don't's related to street photography. Eric Kim is one of the street photographers who I have tended to follow.https://erickimphotography.com/blog/2011/12/26/10-things-not-to-do-as-a-street-photographer/   Posted: 08/27/2020 11:13:54
Ed Tepper   Ed Tepper
Good advice in there.   Posted: 08/27/2020 12:51:46
Carol Sheppard   Carol Sheppard
Thanks for sharing; there are some good tips for sure!   Posted: 09/18/2020 22:04:44

Thread Title: Street Photography Tips

Bill Foy   Bill Foy
Ran across this culling some "stuff" in my files. I don't believe in everything that's stated in the article. However, I think there's enough information/insight to make it a worthwhile read.
https://streetberlin.net/street-photography-tips/   Posted: 07/04/2020 10:12:07
J. Lanning Smith   J. Lanning Smith
Thanks Bill. Interesting read!   Posted: 07/04/2020 14:25:08
Victor Dallons   Victor Dallons
I think that is a good set of tip on street photography. One might quibble with a few of the tips, but for the most part they are right on. Thanks for passing this on.   Posted: 07/04/2020 18:44:04
Bev Caine   Bev Caine
I agree. A few good tips worthwhile considering   Posted: 07/04/2020 19:23:13
Ed Tepper   Ed Tepper
I stopped reading at number 1. That's the most important tip and the only one that matters. His other comments do make sense.   Posted: 07/04/2020 21:59:11
Carol Sheppard   Carol Sheppard
Great article!
  Posted: 09/18/2020 22:06:31

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